Author Topic: Early W111 VIN numbers  (Read 5390 times)

cabrioletturbo

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Early W111 VIN numbers
« on: April 16, 2016, 00:51:54 »
I recently looked at a coupe with 13-digit stamp on the radiator support. It had no VIN plates on the car, no ownership, so it is really difficult to understand what I could be getting without the proper knowledge.
Just to mention that I could not find the VIN on the frame support on passenger side either. With this little information I cannot reach to classic centre, as I do not have the ownership, so catch 22.

The stamp looks original, not tampered with, but the lack of other information does not make this an easy purchase. Does anyone have any idea how I would go about getting a VIN based on the stamp on the rad support, only? Shed some light onto the issue, please.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 02:08:46 by cabrioletturbo »
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

wwheeler

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 19:46:01 »
There is a long tag riveted on the below on the driver's side A pillar (windshield post) And has all of the info on it. Basically has model, seating capacity, tire size and of course the VIN #.

The stamp on the passenger frame rail is just below the throttle body. It is a very deep stamp and mine was taped off so factory paint would not get on it. Only grey primer is showing. If that is gone, either that year has a different location or the frame was replaced.   
Wallace Wheeler
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

cabrioletturbo

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 00:55:08 »
Thanks Wallace, but this car has no tags (I believe the original VIN tag was sitting on the passenger side of the rad support, it still shows screw holes).
The paint code tag is also missing (rivets were grinded off, it was sitting on the driver's side of rad support).

I know where the VIN is supposed to be on the passenger side rail, nothing there either. I noticed that some of the early W111 (61-62) may have had 13-digit VIN numbers, but I am yet to have anyone confirm that.
As I understood, the number punched on the rad support is a combo of the model and production number, not the VIN at all. Could anyone with an early 1961-62 confirm that?

I tried ministry of transportation records, carfax and carproof without success, just by using the number shown on the rad support.
No luck whatsoever. Does anyone have any idea how I would go from here?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 01:48:56 by cabrioletturbo »
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

wwheeler

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 03:15:44 »
Igor,

Both my W128 1960 coupe and W111 280SE coupe both have 14 digit VINs. They did not go to the longer VIN until later. No car fax reports for these cars with the shorter VIN. My '68 has a punch tag on the radiator support and no stamping. The 1960 coupe has a chassis tag on the A pillar support as does the 1968 coupe. Seems to be a common practice for Mercedes. What model is this car? Should be easy to determine based on engine size and features.

Cars without proper paperwork are a nightmare. Ask me how I know. Unless this car is an unusual jewel, I would run as fast as you can.
Wallace Wheeler
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

GGR

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 05:27:33 »
My '62 W111 Coupe has a 14 digit VIN number stamped on the passenger rail. It also has a 13 digit number stamped where you say but that's the body number.

cabrioletturbo

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 12:52:49 »
Thank you both for the update, GGR and wwheeler. The car is an early model, without the brake booster, me thinking either 1961 or 62.
Currently the car has 220SE engine in it, although not original as I have been told. The original engine is also coming with the car, it is another 220SE.
Is there any way or a place where I could cross-reference the original engine number and maybe get to the VIN number?


Igor,

Both my W128 1960 coupe and W111 280SE coupe both have 14 digit VINs. They did not go to the longer VIN until later. No car fax reports for these cars with the shorter VIN. My '68 has a punch tag on the radiator support and no stamping. The 1960 coupe has a chassis tag on the A pillar support as does the 1968 coupe. Seems to be a common practice for Mercedes. What model is this car? Should be easy to determine based on engine size and features.

Cars without proper paperwork are a nightmare. Ask me how I know. Unless this car is an unusual jewel, I would run as fast as you can.
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

waltklatt

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 13:14:12 »
If the interior has not been restored or seats recovered.
You might find a copy of the order form tucked inside a seam or stitching somewhere underneath the seats.  Rear seat is also a possible location.
The order form is from the factory when the cars were made, the craftsmen would tuck the paper into the seat bottom and leave it.
All the information is on there.
If that doesnt work, then record the numbers(stamp punched into the metal) you find on the ignition lock barrel, door handles, trunk lock, rear axle number, transmission number, etc..
And send to Tom Hanson for assistance.

cabrioletturbo

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 08:48:05 »
Thanks Walter, I did.
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

wwheeler

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 14:51:13 »
Thank you both for the update, GGR and wwheeler. The car is an early model, without the brake booster, me thinking either 1961 or 62.

The early coupe cars had a brake booster but was down near the frame rail, not on the firewall like the later models. My 1960 coupe has a booster but is the funky type like the Ponton and 190SL. The high end cars like the coupe and cab should have boosters.

Wallace Wheeler
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

opopotts

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2016, 19:28:49 »
I recently looked at a coupe with 13-digit stamp on the radiator support. It had no VIN plates on the car, no ownership, so it is really difficult to understand what I could be getting without the proper knowledge.
Just to mention that I could not find the VIN on the frame support on passenger side either. With this little information I cannot reach to classic centre, as I do not have the ownership, so catch 22.

The stamp looks original, not tampered with, but the lack of other information does not make this an easy purchase. Does anyone have any idea how I would go about getting a VIN based on the stamp on the rad support, only? Shed some light onto the issue, please.

Igor: Try contacting Tom Hansom at the classic Center and give him the VIN number that is on the radiator support. At least he can confirm whether it is a correct VIN and you can findout the options ,date of manufacture and colour
Doug

cabrioletturbo

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2016, 02:29:21 »
Doug, I did and it did not work. The stamped number is not the VIN, hence I could not get Classic centre to provide anything.
It seems that the MB search that classic centre uses can only perform the search based on the VIN number. No cross-reference is possible by engine number, production number or any other number.

I would not mind even if I knew someone local (MB Toronto) or in Germany who could sit and go through microfiche until they get to the right Data Card.
All I know about the car is that it is an early model 61-63 (without the brake drum as found on 65, for example) based on the production number (within first 6 thousand).

I ran out of ideas. Anyone?
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

perry113

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2016, 11:09:05 »
Doug, I did and it did not work. The stamped number is not the VIN, hence I could not get Classic centre to provide anything.
It seems that the MB search that classic centre uses can only perform the search based on the VIN number. No cross-reference is possible by engine number, production number or any other number.

I would not mind even if I knew someone local (MB Toronto) or in Germany who could sit and go through microfiche until they get to the right Data Card.
All I know about the car is that it is an early model 61-63 (without the brake drum as found on 65, for example) based on the production number (within first 6 thousand).

I ran out of ideas. Anyone?

Run Run!!! Run as fast as you can.
Peter Perry
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GGR

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2016, 12:11:38 »
That 13 digit number on the radiator support is the serial number of the car's body, which is also unique to the car. I would have thought MB would be in a position to give you the VIN by cross-referencing its data base.

I am not absolutely sure, bit the last numbers of that body serial number may be the same as the ones of the VIN. I think this is only true on early cars. I should check on my '62 Coupe. But unfortunately I won't be home before end of June.

280SEC

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Re: Early W111 VIN numbers
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2016, 09:34:35 »
Hi!

The body-no was given yearly, so  it is not unique. When so rail wasn't replaced you must remove the colour and may be the filler. In Germany you can't get a licence when this number is not visible - the plate at the radiator frame is not enough.

Greets Konny

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