Author Topic: Replacing Door & Window Seals  (Read 8091 times)

lorirobin

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Replacing Door & Window Seals
« on: January 21, 2016, 01:47:56 »
Can anyone give me a rough idea what it's going to cost to have the rubber door
and window seals replaced on a 71 W111 Coupe? Both doors and front & rear windows. Parts and labor.
I know a lot of folks do it themselves but I want a better result than I could achieve on a first attempt.
I'm hoping Dr Benz can chime in since he probably has a good idea what current cost are. Or anyone else
who may have had this work done recently.
Thanks,





Benz Dr.

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 23:43:26 »
What ever they cost it will be a lot more than any other car from the time period. For some reason coupe parts  are always at a premium. I haven't ordered any for a quite a while but it would not surprise me if they were several hundred each.
The door seals wouldn't be too bad but the seals that run across the length of the roof will be.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

perry113

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 16:02:17 »
I've done all of this work before and is an incredible amount of time finesse and patience. Are you talking about every seal associated with all of the windows? This would also mean pulling windshield and rear window? There is always a chance that the windshield and rear window can stress crack in this process. What about the front seal on the rear side windows? If so then those rear windows would need to be removed. Are you also replacing the side vent window seals? If you are doing the vent seals then you are into removing the front door panels and removing the window felt, window glass, side window vent assembly. Window adjustments will have to be addressed. Also look at the wearable parts in your window regulators including the special star spring washers. You will have decisions to make.
The windshield and rear window would be cut out and lots of time to fully prep the body window channel to fully clean. There is really hard type of seam sealer in the body window channel. It might be cracked and or you could have some rust in the channel. Removing the seam sealer is a ****. If you go through all of this you will have to address the channel with appropriate corrosion protection and then apply seam sealer to replicate the original sealer that was applied to channel if needed. The lower chrome below the windshield and rear window will have to be removed.
With the windshield out there leaves room and opportunity to perform any work needed on your dash wood. That in itself is a whole nother kettle of fish.
Find someone who understands these cars to do the job. Shopping for expertise who will be fair with you is the way to go rather than the lowest price from a production shop.
If I quoted 40-60 hours to perform the job for every seal associated with the doors and windows I would be discounting the real time because I know I would have more time in it than just that. And that time might not include dealing with removal of failed seam sealer in the windshield and rear window channels and then corrosion protection and new sealer but I would think I would be being more then fair. Maybe a well versed Mercedes restoration shop can beat the above time. But remember its not about beating the clock in this job. It's about not breaking anything in the  process and doing it right.
It is a must to use OEM seals for front and rear windows. The rest could be bought at Vintage Euro. see: http://vintageeuroparts.com/w111.html
Those on the forum that have done this kind of work I would think would agree with me on the time and expertise involved. When I got initially involved in a 220seb restoration I totally miscalculated the time and expenses to do the car correctly. To counter all of the diabolical work involved in restoring a W111 these cars are without question one of the best built automobiles of their era.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:22:50 by perry113 »
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

wwheeler

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 03:44:34 »
Yea, big job. I have only done the front windshield and even that opened up a can-o-worms. You do have to remove the upper dash wood because it sits on the windshield seal. To get that wood, you have to remove some other dash parts, and so on and so on. Unbelievable amount of fiddly stuff with that job. And yes, getting the sealer out is a@#%%# pain.

I might suggest one thing when it comes to parts from Mercedes. If you think you will need them in the future and the shelf life isn't too short, get them now because they may not be around when you need them. Case in point - my '60 220SE Ponton coupe. I started collecting all of the weather-stripping pieces as mine are shot. Guess what? No windshield gasket or lower door seals. They had everything else and a few things were crazy expensive. The W111 parts are headed that way and who knows what parts they will continue to make or reproduce. They just brought back the vent window seal a couple of years ago after being NLA.

Question for Peter,
I am painting my car soon and was going to remove the doors during the process. I thought I may overhaul the doors including weather-stripping when they are off. Is it better to leave the door on to replace the door glass fuzzies, weather-stripping and rebuild the window mechanism, and then take it off? Or is it OK to remove it and them back on with new rubber?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

perry113

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 12:09:57 »
We were able to remove the front windshield without removing the wood. The seal was original and dry rotted so we carefully cut the windshield out and the then was able to remove the remains of the rubber gasket seal.
I would photograph every thing prior to taking apart and as your are taking the car apart.
If you are taking the doors off to refinish the door jambs then I would remove the door glass, window regulator corner window frame etc. while the doors are on the car.
I would not assemble the doors or install the rubber door surround seal until the doors are carefully hung and installed back on the car. The new rubber can be installed with the doors on and without clearance issues. They take time as you glue them on so many inches at a time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 02:03:18 by perry113 »
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

wwheeler

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 15:45:37 »
Thanks Peter,

I could always do the weather-stripping after the painting, but was hoping to remove the rubber and chrome and get underneath all of that. So if I understand correctly, the procedure would be something like this:

Remove door glass, regulator, weather-stripping etc.
Remove the door
Paint car and doors off of car
Reinstall door and check alignment
install new weatherstripping
Install door glass and guts

I don't want to hijack this thread but figured it was relevant to lorirobin.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

perry113

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 02:00:57 »
You find the process of disassembly and assembly naturally.  Well hopefully.

Door panels off which require inner jamb chrome surrounds off. You have to remove the leather covered aluminum door caps. All of the nuances associated with inside door handle surround etc stuff to remove the inside door panel. Removal of rain seal if any. Removing horizontal Inner door cap that the inner window felt is secured to. The felt is typically toast. Removal of the roll up glass then you remove the vent window assembly. I think you remove the outer horizontal felt with the slide glass out. Remove the regulator. The is a window vent gear assembly. There is also a smaller rear u channel guide assembly. You will see the somewhat similar to W113 diabolical yet well designed DNA for the vent window and roll up window adjustment that move the angle of the windows in and out.

If there is any interference/clearance issues or you feel your forcing something then you doing something wrong.

It's up to the paint shop painter as to how they want to paint the doors (the car in general). Lots of times they will remove the doors to paint the jambs and then they will hang the doors back on the car and paint the car. Lots of prep and tricks to properly tape the vehicle jambs. I am lucky that I am not the paint and body guy. I rely on my good friends at George's Collision the shop I have access to.

The weatherstrip u channel goes into the vent window assembly with the assembly out of the door. As I recall there might be some careful prep time the get the channel clean after removing the remnants of the original u channel. Also remember to replace weather strip U channel in rear u channel guide. Install the window vent assembly and vent gearbox and rear guide and then the regulator as I recall. I think the horizontal outer weather strip goes in next. It's the same stuff as W113 but goes in differently as its fastened with the classic #4 flat dished screws to top of door shell. Then you can carefully install the slide glass. Using the window crank to move the regulator up or down while someone secures the side window as its in its channel up or down to find the sweet spot union where you line up your mounting threaded screws. Don't forget the to replace the little rubber do hickies (rubber insulators that protect the window from the threaded screws that go through the sliding glass (mounting hardware for regulator through glass to back side metal channel. This is similar to W113. Then reinstall inner door cap which has the inner horizontal window felt secured again with #4 screws if my memory serves me correctly. This is all finesse. Take your time and also note at some point when all together you have to adjust the vent and roll up glass and the door itself. And you do it to your new rubber seal that runs along the roof line. That stuff is not fun to put in. It will create beads of sweat on your forehead. And also take into consideration the rubber seal on the edge of the rear window. The rear window edge seal had to be carefully chiseled out. Lots of time to get the channel carefully and resourcefully cleaned up. Then using slick soapy water or tire shine to lube up the channel seal and slide the **** into the rear window channel. Sliding that sucker in is a 2 man job. One to hold the window assembly and a 2nd sucker to do the sliding. Yes this is fun. Have patience my friend. You can do it. Yes its all possible. Mind and physical along with tools over matter. Yes maybe 40-60 hours is a gift. I didn't get into replacing the rubbers in the window vent. Another project to take deep breaths and enjoy the process.  ::) Don't forget to clean and lubricate and service you regulators and replace the plastic jaw slides and make new door rain seals.
I hope this helps.  :-X
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 02:39:23 by perry113 »
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

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Re: Replacing Door & Window Seals
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 03:25:36 »
WOW! Unbelievable write up. I am going to print this out and put it in my project file. It is where I store all info for later projects. I remember doing the dash and had a guide from the Mercedes Collector. That was as this is, invaluable. I still remember the "hidden" screw in the upper corner of the lower dash pad. You have to peel the leather back to access it. I would have never found it without the guide.

This is sounds daunting, but I like to stop and smell the roses along the way. Better than watching TV.

Thanks again.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6