Author Topic: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?  (Read 10649 times)

jameshoward

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Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« on: July 18, 2015, 21:55:54 »
Just parking the car this evening after a spot of annual servicing, etc and noticed how particularly crappy the rear tail lights are. I note that the bulbs are 4w. I wondered what others have done to make the car safer in the dark. Have people switched to LEDs, and if so what's the score on how that works, or have people just put 8W bulbs in? I think the brake lights are 16w, so it would be a bit dodgy putting anything in the rear lights that would make the brake lights harder to see.

JH
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

hauser

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 06:28:14 »
Do a search for Daniel Stern lighting. He'll let you know what works best.

Naj ✝︎

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 09:27:57 »
6 watt halogen bulbs as used in W210 front side lights.
The pins are offset but still fit OK

Naj
68 280SL

PeterW113

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 12:08:47 »
I used these on my Elan;

http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/380-Super-Bright-60-LED-Brake-and-Rear-Bayonet-bulb.html

Finally lights people behind can see.

Something I would definitely consider for my Pagoda.

Peter
Peter
1968 MB 280SL, RHD Auto
1968 Lotus Elan +2
1965 Fiat 500
2004 BMW 1200 GS

jameshoward

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 20:32:02 »
Guys,

Many thanks for your posts. I've been in email contact with a guy I know who does a lot of lighting upgrades on Land Rovers and a lot of people I know use his products. He recommended this bulb:
http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/207-5630-smd--cree-combo-for-reverse-lights--front-207-type-sidelights-pack-of-2-5659-p.asp

Having had my tail light apart this evening, this bulb won't work, I think. For those that haven't taken their rear light cluster apart, the first thing you'll notice is just how tiny the rear light bulb is. It's little bigger than a pea. The bulb is upright, rather than in a conventional position. (I'll post some photos). I think that the bulb in the link above emits it's light from the top looking at the picture, rather than from the sides. Would that be correct? Thus the majority of the light would be shining upwards.

Peter, thanks for your post. The bulb you list won't fit, I fear. The existing bulb is about 17mm high from where the collar is soldered to the light base plate, to the top of the bulb. Like I said, it's tiny! This LED is almost 2.5 times higher.

Naj, thanks for your suggestion, but it's only an additional 2 watts of illumination, isn't it? So I know it's a 50% improvement, but I'm after a significant improvement, so still open to suggestions!

I'll upload the pics I have and will also send them to the guy who owns Advanced Factors to see if he's got any bright ideas  ::)
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

rwmastel

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 00:47:34 »
I'll post some photos

Yes, please do!  Thanks for the info.

I've not seen anyone write about being dissatisfied with Daniel Stern Lighting.  The "tech" section of the page is a great educational read.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html
dastern@torque.net
tech@danielsternlighting.com

« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 01:01:58 by rwmastel »
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL

Larry & Norma

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 09:08:08 »
Hi James, one problem that occurs with these units is that the bulb
holders develop a high resistance to the carrier because of corrosion.
The holders are riveted to the light unit. I drilled out a rivet on each holder
and replaced with a 3mm nut and bolt with a star washer each side to make
a good contact with the metal, this improves the earth contact and the
bulbs become much brighter.
Just a thought ;)
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

66andBlue

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 20:24:46 »
... but I'm after a significant improvement, so still open to suggestions!
Hello James,
the problems you are facing are that
(a) the base for these lamps is a BA9s,
(b) that it has to provide light in at least 2 opposite directions, that is, towards the rear of the car and also the trunk on early 230SL cars (up to VIN 12466),
and (c) if only one lamp is turned on it has to be able to shine through the other. I hope the photo makes this really clear and not opaque (pun intended).
If you want to change only the tail light bulb (and hope that if you ever have to park the car with the clearance light on it will scatter around the other and be bright enough) then I would try this bi-directional LED bulb:
http://www.dx.com/p/ba9s-3w-32lm-2-smd-5050-led-white-light-dual-sides-decoded-car-clearance-lamp-12v-2-pcs-161181
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

awolff280sl

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 20:52:51 »
Alfred, thanks for the tip on the dual side LEDs.
I never use my clearance lights, so I jumped them to the tail lights, polished up the reflector surface in the housing, and put in standard LEDs. Better, but still not great.
The dual sides are cheap enough and shipping is free, so I ordered 2 for each side. I'll report back if it's better.
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

jameshoward

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 21:17:57 »
Hi Larry, Alfred,

Many thanks for your advice. I've ordered a couple of these:  http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/233-ba9s-t4w-led-number-plate-lamp-pair-40353-p.asp

You're quite right, Alfred, they are BA9S. These bulbs are slightly different to your, but I'm hoping that the effect is the same. They're quite cheap. They should arrive tomorrow, so I'll fit at the weekend and take some pics and report back.

Larry, I'll try the bulbs before I drill, but I recall you having said the same thing when we spoke at the SL day a few years back.

More to follow!
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

114015

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 22:29:15 »
Dear James,

I went with Naj's suggestion and used the halogen 6 W bulbs.
A major upgrade for sure !!!!

More important is also:
clean out your old tail light from the inside thoroughly. There's a lot of dust and "road grime" insight with the years ... uhem with the decades.
Furthermore, if possible, get your reflector re-mirror-ed. Makes a huge difference.

Together with the 6 W halogen bulbs (of Naj's suggestion) you'll get a major upgrade !!

Also for the brake lights and turnsignal lights, uses 21 W bulbs instead of 15 or 18W
Another major improvement !


Good luck !

Achim
(redtaillightaficionado)
Achim
(Germany)

66andBlue

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 23:55:56 »
... I went with Naj's suggestion and used the halogen 6 W bulbs.
A major upgrade for sure !!!!
Achim,
for how many hours have these bulbs been burning in your tail lamps now? Yes they are brighter - putting out 50 lumens - but are also hotter.
Has the plastic melted yet?

Quote
Naj, thanks for your suggestion, but it's only an additional 2 watts of illumination, isn't it? So I know it's a 50% improvement,

James, the bi-direction bulb that I linked earlier puts out about 32 lumen.
Your calculation is only correct for like bulbs, that is, having the same luminous efficacy. That parameter is higher for halogen bulbs and even higher for LED.
See: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/how-watt-to-lumen.htm
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Larry & Norma

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 07:55:22 »
Hi James,
You remember correctly, measure the voltage at the bulb when on, if much less
than battery voltage then my solution will help.
LED's draw less current so any voltage drop will be less (ohm's law) so will
appear much brighter.

Larry
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

jameshoward

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2015, 12:41:57 »
Thanks, Larry. I put a fluke across them after I'd cleaned the terminals and it was good. I've done the change now and put it in a separate thread in the hope it'll help someone else decide. I'll take a few piccys tonight.

JH
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 04:07:03 »
....
If you want to change only the tail light bulb (and hope that if you ever have to park the car with the clearance light on it will scatter around the other and be bright enough) then I would try this bi-directional LED bulb:
http://www.dx.com/p/ba9s-3w-32lm-2-smd-5050-led-white-light-dual-sides-decoded-car-clearance-lamp-12v-2-pcs-161181

After a long wait the bi-directional LED bulbs arrived but I doubt that they are an improvement over the 4-LED bulbs that I had installed earlier (and which I also use in the instrument cluster).
In addition when inserted into the bajonet base and turned until the pins sit in the dimples then the beam is not perpendicular to the plane of the bulb carrier.
I turned the bulb until the beam was going straight to the back to take the photo but I am not sure for how long the bulb would sit there securely during bumpy driving.
The one on the left is more focused and perhaps when one is directly in line behind it may appear a bit brighter than the one on the right. In any case either one is quite a bit brighter than the regular 4W incandescent but I'll stay with the 4-LED.
Also note that the two festoon LED bulbs that illuminate the reflective license plate appear a lot brighter.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 04:25:06 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

66andBlue

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 02:00:56 »
Looks like I found a LED bulb that is a lot better and very similar to the one that James installed in his car.
I have posted photos and links in this topic: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22863.0
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

ejboyd5

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 13:34:37 »
If everyone is fixated on switching to LED or halogen lamps, so be it.  For those who are still interested in the old technology, here's an extract/revision of an article that's been around on the internet for some time and seems to do a fairly good job of explaining the "old school" lamps:

 LAMP (BULB) COMPARISONS:

1073 or 1141: single-filament bulb (23w). Reversing/backup lights (and single-function—brake-only, turn-only—lights).

1034: dual-filament (23/8.3w). Park/turn and brake/tail. Clear bulb for use with red rear or amber front lens.

1034A or 1034NA: Dual-filament park/turn (23w). Amber bulb for use with clear front lens.

In the early '70s, the 1073/1141 was replaced by the 1156 (single filament) (26.9w), the 1034 was replaced by the 1157 (dual filament) (27/8.3w). These 1150-series bulbs put out the same amount of light, but draw slightly more current and last quite a bit longer. When changing from 1034s to 1157s (dual filament), often it was (and is) necessary to replace the turn signal flasher, because the original would flash too fast if used with 1157s. Nowadays, it's difficult to find a flasher calibrated for 1034s.

So, what to use for upgrade bulbs? Well first, here's what NOT to use: 2057s! People sometimes assume that because it's a higher number, it's a brighter bulb. No. The difference between 1157 and 2057 is in the "minor" (dim parking or tail) filament. On the 2057, the dim filament produces 2 candlepower. On the 1157, the dim filament produces 3 candlepower. The difference doesn't sound like much, but it's very large as a percentage. Both 1157 and 2057 produce 32 candlepower from the bright (brake or turn) filament.

Though they are expensive, the best bulb you can use in place of 1157 (dual filament) is called P3496 (25.2/8.26w). It draws the same amount of current as 1157, but is much more efficient. It produces 43 candlepower on the bright (brake or turn) filament, and 3.5 candlepower on the dim (tail or parking) filament. It also has a nickel-plated base that is much more corrosion resistant than the plain brass base of an 1157.

The best replacement for 1156, 1141 and 1073 (single filament) in all applications except reversing/backup lights is P3497 (27w). It produces 45 candlepower. (Yes, the 6 and the 7 in P3496 and P3497 are reversed from the 6 and the 7 in 1156 and 1157 relative to how many filaments the bulb has. This is not a typo.) The P3496 and P3497 bulbs have a life span about double that of an 1157.

The best bulb for use in backup/reverse lights is a P796. It is a 35W halogen bulb that produces 62 candlepower, or about double the light of an 1156 and about triple the light of an 1141. The extra wattage is minor (35W vs. 28W, the wires and lenses will not notice or care) and the filament is in the right place. Neither of these compliments can be said of those 50W halogen backup bulbs you see in the parts stores! 50W is way too much current draw (100% overload!) for the stock wiring and switch, they produce way too much heat for safety near plastic lenses, and the filament's in the wrong place so the reflector doesn't work correctly with them. The P796s work great, and you finally get to see where you're going when backing at night.

66andBlue

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Re: Crappy tail lights - what have people done?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2015, 18:02:54 »
This is the problem with articles floating around the internet, they may apply or may not.

Quote
1034: dual-filament (23/8.3w). Park/turn and brake/tail. Clear bulb for use with red rear or amber front lens.

I have no clue how you come up with the idea that W113 tail lamps use dual-filament bulbs for the turn signal?  ???

Quote
The best bulb for use in backup/reverse lights is a P796. It is a 35W halogen bulb

The original back-up light is a 15W bulb, now you want a 35W halogen?  ???

See: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights for a list of original bulb sockets.
and http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/USLamp for bulb sockets in an early AC headlamp.

For a fruitful discussion it would also help to know whether one types about Euro or USA style headlamps (and which type) and which bulb holder in the tail lamp, early or late.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 18:28:55 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)