Front Brake Upgrade

[FredPart]

In the technical article section there is a discussion about upgrading the brakes on the 280SL to the vented rotors (and matching calipers from a 450SE.  Has anyone performed this upgrade?  Do the 450SE parts just bolt on?

I just drove my 1970 280SL back from the shop after sitting for about 7 years (the car, not me) and it seems that the front calipers may be seized.  If I am buying new parts anyway, I would prefer to upgrade at the same time.

Fred Partridge


Fred Partridge
Surrey, BC, Canada
1970 280SL
(under re-construction)

[jeffc280sl]

Hi Fred,

Sounds like an interesting idea.  I'm sure someone can tell us if it will work.  These cars are known for a rather severe nose dive when braking hard.  I would think more braking capability up front would worsen this action.  Maybe a similar upgrade can be made to the rear at the same time.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[hauser]

Fred, go to the topic "tire Nirvana" and tak a look at member Norton's post.  Here he explains the type of set up he has on his car and is similar to what you are looking for.  You can click on his name and send him a private email and discuss his findings.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[mdsalemi]

Looking back...

1)  The brake "diving" is a well known characteristic dating back to the early test reports; I don't think it really means anything other then the fact that it makes you think you are in a panic stop when perhaps you are not?

2)  The cure for brake diving is also well documented and that is the progressive rate springs--which also improve the ride (IMHO) considerably.  If you get a chance to drive a 113 with them, by all means do so.

3)  Aside from this diving issue, if your brakes work properly they are very good brakes indeed--and this is also well documented in the early test reports.

What this means is that our brakes, properly working, are well matched to the performance of the car--diving not withstanding.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[ja17]

Hello Fred,
The front brakes from a 280-SE 3.5, 4.5 or 6.3 (all W108 chasis), with ventilated brake rotors and calipers will bolt right up! The advantage is the ventilated rotors. The brake pads are the same size on both carrs.
The brakes from the W116 chasis 450-SE do have larger brake pads however they will not bolt up.
It sounds like your rubber brake hoses have constricted during the long period of inactivity. Start with the inexpensive fixes first! Change those brake hoses, you'll be surprised!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[jeffc280sl]

Thanks for the info Joe.  Since the pads are the same, do the calipers need to be replaced with the 280SE calipers?  Do we have the same situation in the rear?

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[FredPart]

I have two new front hoses that I did not get to install before the car left for the shop.  And I was wondering what to do this Saturday.

Thanks!



Fred Partridge
Surrey, BC, Canada
1970 280SL
(under re-construction)

[ja17]

Yes the calipers are wider to accomodate the wider "vented" rotors, but they will bolt right on. So you need the V-8 calipers and rotors to convert.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[jeffc280sl]

Thanks Joe!

How about the rear brakes?

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[Bob G]

Getting back in the drivers seat of my 280SL after all these years I had to retrain my self how to use the dic brakes of the SL of this era. So I keep my distance when braking. this does not mean these brakes are not any good the technologhy has changed with the R-107 adding anti dive into the suspension and larger brakes help that do away with that feeling of being on the tips of your toes.
Bob Geco

[ja17]

Hello Jeff,
Only the 300-SEL 6.3 sedan (w108 chasis) has ventilated rear brakes and I do not  think these will change over but not sure.  Otherwise almost all of the other sedans of the era have the same rear brake calipers, pads and rotors.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Ben]

Mmmmm apart from the nosedive, which doesn't bother me, the brakes on my 230SL are well up to the job of stopping it repeatedly from high speeds. In fact it nearly stops quicker than my '03 CLK !!

Just make sure every component is in good order, fresh fluid, brakes bled etc !!

One curious thing though I HAVE noticed !  If the brake pads wear down too much the clips appear to prevent them contacting the rotors.........so you eventually end up with no brakes !!

Is this correct ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Ben

If the brake pads wear down too much the clips appear to prevent them contacting the rotors.........so you eventually end up with no brakes !!

Is this correct ??

Ben,

What do you mean by "clips"?  I replaced the brake pads on my 230 SL this summer and I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[ja17]

Hello Ben,
Yes, the clips will finally stop the pads the pads worn out. The brakes do not go away, the pedal pressure becomes harder and eventually you will get metal to metal contact if left in this condition.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[glennard]

quote:Originally posted by Ben

Mmmmm apart from the nosedive, which doesn't bother me, the brakes on my 230SL are well up to the job of stopping it repeatedly from high speeds. In fact it nearly stops quicker than my '03 CLK !!

Just make sure every component is in good order, fresh fluid, brakes bled etc !!

One curious thing though I HAVE noticed !  If the brake pads wear down too much the clips appear to prevent them contacting the rotors.........so you eventually end up with no brakes !!

Is this correct ??
Vaguely remember some clip or other device to stop metal to metal contact on some brake set up somewhere.

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Ben]

Actually I have found that the pedal first becomes much softer, as the pistons are still trying to force the pads in and the clips are only interfereing with the front end. The pads actually pivot around the clip at the front. If you were foolish enough to ignore this then you might eventually get a hard pedal !

Out of curiousity how many miles should one get from a set of pads, and does anyone use anything other than MB pads ?

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Malc]

Ben,
When I replace pads in any car I always pump the pedal afew times to make sure all the "slack" is taken up for pushing pistons back etc.

Pad life is very dependent on your driving style and if the car is Automatic or not.

I have started using Mintex "racing" pads in my daily hack and in the BMW2002Tii, I can get the pads made in any material (hardness)
Mintex range usually starts at 1144 which is the softest and goes up 1155, 1166 etc etc
I am using 1166 material as it seems the best for daily use. I also use this material in the Lancia rally car for a good balance between hardness and life.
If interested try Questmead Brakes www.questmead.co.uk for your requirements as they can make pads for you. They supply the Scottish Rally Championship.
THey are not cheap, but they seem to last very well and they fit!
HTH
Malc

[ja17]

Hello Ben,
Yes I can go along with your observation, I recall the spongyness. However to get the same braking performance increased pedal pressure is needed at some point, as you overide these "cross springs".

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio