Author Topic: rear crankshaft seal  (Read 7345 times)

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
rear crankshaft seal
« on: February 06, 2015, 16:28:23 »
Hello Friends
I have my engine out and I am working my way to a leaking rear end crankshaft seal. I think I have read everything that is written on the subject on this forum, but I still have some questions.
Some people told me the following 2 statements. Are they correct?
1/ when you buy the new rope seal, make sure that it has not been on the shop shelf for too long, since it may have dried pout. It should be greasy (with Graphite)
2/ the new seal have to be soaked for a day or 2 in engine oil before putting it in.
I think these 2 statements don’t go tougher well, PLUS would the oil not make the rope swell so that it does not fit in the grooves anymore?
Any wisdom on this please?
Thanks guys.
Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7142
  • Benz Dr.
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 22:17:49 »
I don't agree with either of those statements. I install the rear seal dry and use a special depth gauge to obtain the desired .020''' on the block and oil pan. You need to use a very sharp knife to cut the seal so that you get a nice flat surface for the seal ends to push against.
I use a silicone sealer for the pan and then I try and press it up against the seal. Installed correctly, the seal should not leak. If you pre lube the seal, any sealing compound you use won't adhere to the block or pan if you get oil on those surfaces. So no, don't do that. Old seals dry out? Not that I've ever seen. Rubber ones will  over time but this seal isn't rubber.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

ja17

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Blacklick
  • Posts: 7313
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2015, 05:41:27 »
Since the make-up of gaskets and seals changes to improved materials over the years it is best to use the latest and greatest. Factory fresh gaskets and seals are manufactured with improved materials and can cope with new chemicals in today's liquids, gasoline, oil etc. I try to follow any new instructions which come with these modern gaskets and seals. Sometimes it might conflict with information (out of date) in the BBB. Here is a sample of the installation instructions for the modern rope seal. The modern rope seal material is most likely Kevlar these days (not rope anymore). The modern Kevlar is much better, its tougher lasts longer, shrinks less, it is harder to cut, naturally. The new spec for the protrusion of the seal is different than the spec in the BBB. This contradiction is most likely due to the new improved material which has a different shrinkage rate. A special installation tool is shown, however I suspect that the "wooden hammer handle method" as described in the BBB will work just fine on the new improved seal. I made a special tool like the one pictured. Agreeing with Dan's comments, I carefully clean the mating surfaces with alcohol to remove any oil or grease before applying and sealer. I do use grease or lube on the exposed rubbing surface of the installed rope seal before the crankshaft is installed. I never have"soaked" one before installation.  I also paint the back side of the rope seal with a thin gasket shellac before I install it, to keep any oil from sneaking around the back of the seal. This is most likely a bit of over-kill. There are many different lines of thought on which sealer to use. If in doubt you can still get a factory  approved sealing compound from your local MB dealer.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:05:30 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2015, 11:00:40 »
Thanks gentlemen, I will report on my success rate!

Jan
Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 08:14:10 »
Sorry guys, I think I need some more help please.

The engine is out and I have taken the autotrans off. I want to do only the under part of the rear seal, since my engine will undergo a full revision by a pro next year.
What is now the best way to get access to the seal?
According to my MB book, I need to:

1/ Remove the wheel of the camshaft, mark the chain and wheel
2/ Turn the engine upside down, lift the chain on the crankshaft etc.

Is this really what I should do if I only want to do the lower half of the rear seal?
My engine is hanging on a safe hoist, so it is freely accessible from underneath. Looking at it, I see all these horizontal bolts, it looks like I can take the oil pan off. Can I not just do that and take the crankshaft out? Can anybody tell me what the steps are? Also, should I not fix the camshaft somehow (Timing)?
Thanks guys!

Jan

Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7142
  • Benz Dr.
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 13:53:05 »
How bad is the oil leak? If you are going to do a complete rebuild next year can it wait until then?
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2015, 14:24:26 »
The leak is fairly bad, but I have lived with it for 2 years now since I bought the car, so it is bearable. 

I understand your point, it is more efficient to do everything at once. However, I choose to do this project not only to repair it, but also a bit to challenge myself. :P The work is meant to get myself a bit of practice.

Jan


 
Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

ja17

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Blacklick
  • Posts: 7313
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2015, 15:09:42 »
To replace the lower half of the seal, just remove the large aluminum oil pan. The lower part of the rear seal can then be replaced.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2015, 15:13:29 »
Thanks Joe, that sounds easy. I will try this weekend.

Jan
Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7142
  • Benz Dr.
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 19:28:47 »
I would cut the new seal to .040'' protrusion on each end so it will press firmly against the old seal in the block. You could also measure the recession of the seal in the block and cut the new seal so that you have about .020'' of press fit against the old seal. The main idea is not to have a gap for oil to leak through.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 20:21:15 by Benz Dr. »
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 07:25:43 »
...sounds like a very good suggestion. Thanks!
Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969

jan lauwers

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Belgium, Antwerpen, Geel
  • Posts: 162
Re: rear crankshaft seal
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 08:09:57 »
Since my last post in February, I have been pulled in so many other issues with my beloved Pagoda so that only now, I am getting back to this rear seal! I have placed the new seal in the oil pan. I made a tool to press it in, a bit like the half circle shown in the MB book, but I made mine of wood.
Using that piece, I pressed the seal in the groove, but now I notice that it is sitting just a little (0.5mm?) higher than the groove. I cannot press it deeper. Is this normal? I hope that the attached picture explains… the point of the screw driver indicates the difference in height.
Thanks again gentlemen.
Jan

Jan Lauwers, Geel, Belgium 

White 280 SL 1969