Author Topic: Black Refinish (Read 10806 times)

SilverSpear · « **on:** November 18, 2012, 22:36:50 »

Hey guys,

I am in the process of overhauling/refinishing the suspension system as well as some other engine bay pieces. Aside from replacing all damaged rubber parts, ball joints, etc.... I am prepping them for powdercoating.

Questions: I know the subframe and related parts are originally finished in satin black by MB (pls correct me if I am wrong). What about the top/bottom side of the radiator? Air filter canister? Hydraulic power steering bottle? Radiator bottle? etc...

Thanks

w113dude · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2012, 23:03:51 »

I did mine in satin black, the only thing I would suggest before powder coating is to have all your threaded parts covered with a scrap screw or bolt if those threaded holes get powder coated it's very hard to clean afterwards.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2012, 23:13:33 »

Quote from: w113dude on November 18, 2012, 23:03:51

I did mine in satin black, the only thing I would suggest before powder coating is to have all your threaded parts covered with a scrap screw or bolt if those threaded holes get powder coated it's very hard to clean afterwards.

This is exactly what I am doing. I am cutting bolt heads with a saw, then engraving its diameter with the saw too and bolting it in their relative threaded parts with a screwdriver.
I will remove them easily after powdercoating...

I have access locally to DuPont products. I was checking their website, they don't have a clear mention about Satin Black.

Can you guys help out http://www.dupontpowderapps.com/default.aspx? Pls choose "black" in the middle box and press enter.

49er · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2012, 23:44:52 »

Satin black would be correct for the items you mentioned. I have posted this photo on the forum before but you might find it helpful. It is of the engine compartment on my 280SL taken when the car was 6 months old (March 1969).

John

SilverSpear · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2012, 05:45:08 »

Thank you for the picture 49'er.

I am still finding it confusing to distinguish Satin Black from Semi Gloss.
Some websites list them as the same. Others as a tad different...

mdsalemi · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2012, 12:51:20 »

Spear,

Don't attempt the radiator or overflow tank: the heat of proper powder coating may destroy the soldering. Other have done it successfully; my professional powder coater tried it on my overflow tank and all the solder leaked out of the seams (not to mention a variety of repairs to the tank made over the years!) and I had to repair the tank and have it repainted.

Sounds like you are doing it yourself. Like painting, a good job has a lot to do with the prep work. Skimp on the prep and don't do it 100% and you'll have a flawed job. I am fortunate to have a local powder coater that does world-class work and the price is very reasonable.

During the restoration 12 years ago, all the chassis components were powder coated like your plans; in addition, as time goes on and I have to take various parts apart, I'll take the opportunity for a refinish. In 2011 I did the fan shroud, air cleaner canister, and battery frame/tray. Wheels were done too.

wwheeler · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2012, 04:32:50 »

I am no expert on gloss levels but found this that explains some of it. http://www.paintpro.net/Articles/PP505/PP505_Standards.cfm

It is an art and a science! It is hard to go by a name satin, eggshell, etc. because everybody has their own name for it. The only true description is by gloss level.

wwheeler · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2012, 05:15:16 »

Here are some trunk pictures. The first is with light grey epoxy catalyst primer. The second is with the very dark grey semi/satin gloss frinish. I didn't spend a lot of time with lighting, so the pictures aren't great. The gloss level will dull a bit over the next day or so as the paint is still somewhat fresh. I have some factory runs although they weren't intentional. That is a tough place to be with a spray gun.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2012, 20:29:45 »

Hello Michael, Wwheeler,

I am not attempting to powdercoat the parts myself, but I am prepping them myself for powdercoating.

My friend works for a company that does hydroblasting. He personally works on the truck (the machine can go up to 3000 bar).
He was trying out a new machine, so he asked to do some items that I have. We tried it on the subframe, suspension coils and rims (Free of charge

). 95% of the rust, mud, gunk, etc... was removed and I was left with a thin layer of rust. So I used a special rust dissolver to reach a clean finish.

I called the local DuPont dealer and to my luck, their Middle East Regional Manager was in the office. So he pointed me to the right direction in terms of Satin Black (which is different than Semi-Gloss) and advised me to use a base powdercoating material called Zinc Plating which can be also bought from DuPont at Eur 9 per quart. The Satin Black was US$ 7.5 per quart.

I will try it first on a couple brake caliper brackets for my Subaru that I recently fabbed for its big brake kit. I will compare to the existing color on some other components.

Michael, point noted for the overflow tank. I will ask the powdercoater what we can do in this perspective. Maybe lower the temperature and keep it inside for more time? Will keep you guys posted.

Thanks

mdsalemi · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2012, 22:41:49 »

Spear,

Would be beneficial to research the process a bit...

http://www.memphispowdercoating.com/stepbystep.htm
http://www.powder-coater.com
http://www.bbssystem.com/manuals/PowderManual.pdf
http://alloynet.com/uploads/Powder_Coating.pdf

As you can see there are a lot of different approaches to cleaning and prep, and it is more involved than paint!

One thing I've always wondered about is the time between cleaning, pre-bake, and powder coat--does this all have to be done quickly? I don't know. Iron and steel seem to rust almost immediately!

Good luck and let us know how it all works out.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2012, 08:31:51 »

Thanks Michael,

Those are good articles no doubt.
As the regional manager said, zinc plating is the ultimate solution, the articles point it out too.

Cleaning is going to be a real challenge, but I will do my best to get the ultimate results.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2012, 20:11:50 »

Anyone tried to powdercoat the coil springs of the suspension/rear axle?

wwheeler · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2012, 20:03:22 »

I had mine powder coated and they look great. I read several articles about how powder coating is flexible enough for springs. I haven't installed them yet. Eventhough I have a DIY-set up that works well for smaller parts, those springs require a professional gun and experience to get it right.

I bought new springs from MB and I removed the finish as I always do before sending parts to the shop. If you buy new, that coating is a BEAR to remove. Mine had some sort of very flexible paint that just lauged at the paint stripper. Not sure if I will powder coat the front springs now. May just leave the flexible coating on.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2012, 20:24:53 »

Quote from: wwheeler on November 26, 2012, 20:03:22

I bought new springs from MB and I removed the finish as I always do before sending parts to the shop. If you buy new, that coating is a BEAR to remove. Mine had some sort of very flexible paint that just lauged at the paint stripper. Not sure if I will powder coat the front springs now. May just leave the flexible coating on.

Wallace--I bet the springs ARE ALREADY powder coated! When you state "very flexible [paint]" and "laughed at the paint stripper" that tells me powder coat! My old alloy wheels, I swear were painted but the pro powder coater told me "no, they are not painted...it's powder coat". They had some relatively easy way to remove it...

SilverSpear · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2012, 20:35:10 »

Hello Wallace, Michael,

Yes I was reading more and more about Powdercoating and specifically about DuPont (since it seem the only one available in its full range), all types are labeled 5 star flexible.
The ends of my springs have some rust, so cure is needed. I will remove the rest of the paint with paint remover, then rust dissolver then sandblasting and cleaning with thinner.

Will definitely post pictures as things move along.

wwheeler · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2012, 18:15:23 »

While I don't know everything about powder coating, I don't think it was. You are right that it is a royal pain to remove. I have had to remove old powder coated finishes but the coating on the spring didn't remove the same way. I could take a utility knife and almost peel off the flexible finish where as powder coating tends to chip more.

This coating almost reminded me off the stuff you would dip your plier handles into. It was that flexible. Except this was much, much tougher and harder. Maybe like a urethane or a plastic coating. Strange stuff.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2012, 16:22:59 »

Hey guys, quick question... What should I paint my calipers?
Is it also satin black? I have seen some black and some silver calipers on Pagodas, which is the correct color?

66andBlue · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2012, 16:43:01 »

It helps to use the search function.

The answer to your question may be right here:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=13688.0
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=7317

SilverSpear · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2012, 05:18:13 »

Haha, I was using my blackberry when I posted this. Search on a small screen gives me a headache.

Thanks anyways.

wwheeler · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2012, 21:39:03 »

I just recently purchased brand new rear ATE calipers from MB for my W111 and they were plated without a doubt. I don't know whether it was zinc or CAD. It also had a chromate that some call clear chromate but it gives a slightly blueish tint to the plating just like the bolts at the hardware store.

Now I don't know if the calipers came like this originally from the factory, but the ATE replacements are. My front calipers were in good shape and I painted them using G2 silver caliper paint. That is a bit too shiny for a plated finish, but they will get dirty with brake dust and will cover the shine. Never used G2 but had great reviews.

SilverSpear · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2012, 21:43:31 »

Quote from: wwheeler on December 14, 2012, 21:39:03

...but they will get dirty with brake dust and will cover the shine. Never used G2 but had great reviews.

Exactly what I was thinking about. Hence I think I will powdercoat them in Satin black along with the other items.

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Author Topic: Black Refinish (Read 10806 times)

w113dude