Author Topic: No Dust or Low Dust Pads  (Read 4916 times)

280SE Guy

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No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« on: April 29, 2012, 21:53:57 »
Does anyone have any experience with low dust or no dust brake pads for the ATE calipers? I am using the stock Mercedes Textar pads on my 1971 280SE and with the diving season coming up soon I would really like to have some brake pads that don't mess up my Bundt wheels every time I drive Anthracite. Granted the Textar's stop on a dime and give you 9 cents change I would really like to get rid of the brake dust problem.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

280SE Guy

Sent from my laptop in the garage, home of Anthracite, while listening to the Beatles "Love" CD.


1971 280SE, 6 Cyl MFI, Anthracite Grey with Grey MB Tex

pagoden

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 02:41:59 »
In PUBs past, Jim Villers extolled the virtues of "carbon-Kevlar" pads.  When my axle swap brought the issue forward I did some internet and phone searching of 'super-duper' pads, and for various reasons -- from product to attitude -- ended up with an old-line brake outfit in CA, the Porterfield Brake Co., one of the suppliers Jim mentioned in his Drivability presentations.  They make friction surfaces from the ordinary to the extreme (endurance racing, for example).  The one that Jim recommended, and that I use, is their carbon-Kevlar pad rated for street and the occasional light track work.  They don't need any warm-up.  To me, they're not at all exotic, and as I've said somewhere here before, they just like to stop the car: smooth, velvety and silent, too.  And clean, whatever that means.  That is, my car doesn't get many weekday miles, so not much mileage has mounted up in the ~ 18 months they've been on.  Mine isn't -- and likely won't ever be -- Anthracite; I've just been washing the wheels along with the rest of the car and haven't noticed brake dust darkening or much of any before/after color difference during washing.  [I run an unconventional military-grade clear anodized finish over lightly-blasted surfaces on pressed aluminum diesel sedan wheels with just the small ("dogdish") caps, so there's a fair amount of lightish grey area showing.]  Again, you work to a higher standard, but I do appreciate not having the brake dust issues I had before.

Porterfield R4-S pads are claimed to have ~ 35 - 100% greater friction coefficient than ordinary formulations, to be rotor-friendly (definitely non-metallic) and produce much less (and 'nicer') brake dust.  Nothing in my experience contradicts any of that.

During the search I came across Jerry Jones.  His website,  www.formymercedes.com,  sells Porterfield products at Porterfield's prices, and with an interesting twist.  Ordered through him, the pads ship directly from P-field and include a little box of installation-prep goodies designed to prevent brake squeal; this seems to be space-agish stuff but the fairly extensive procedure is basically just a very thorough surface prep.  This kit is included at no cost.  I asked him about it and learned he'd had a few complaints regarding brake squeal years before, looked into that whole issue and decided on this course as the way he wanted to go: says he hasn't had any further problems.  In my experience, following maybe 70% of the procedure has resulted in just a peep or two from my pads.  ["70%"? - long story involving wrong parts, track day deadline and resulting goat-rope 500+ miles from home and then in my driveway until 3AM.]  Brake squeal's been with us since before the advent of discs made it much more common; I doubt that it's significantly worse with these pads, and regard the prep kit as a nice no-cost extra.  I can't say they'll 'give you 9 cents change'; maybe 6 or 7.  YMMV.  I do consider them to be a significant all-around upgrade. 

Our old Mercedes models have dropped off from specific mention on both the Porterfield -- www.porterfield-brakes.com -- and Jone's listings, but the call-outs are still the same as ever for pads for our ATE calipers (mine is a 68/69 280SL, should be the same pieces as yours, yes?):  front: AP45, and rear: AP31.  The identifier for the appropriate carbon-Kevlar compound is:  R4-S.   

Both sources have customer service by toll-free telephone.  Jones is in Buffalo Grove, IL and does the customer service all by himself; he's meticulous by nature.  Porterfield is friendly and efficient with phone orders.  It's possible that you can get a better price at Livermore Performance, Inc. in Livermore, CA, but that's outside my experience.

Denny
1968/69 280SL, just+100k mi, manual 4, 3.46, both tops, 717/904

280SE Guy

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 08:57:20 »
Denny,

Wow, thanks for the great write up! I'll do some phoning today to see if those pads are still available for our series of cars. My penny jar is just about full from all of the change I get back from using the Texar's and I really despise all of that black brake dust.

Regards,

280SE Guy
1971 280SE, 6 Cyl MFI, Anthracite Grey with Grey MB Tex

bogeyman

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 10:28:36 »
Denny:
How did you get the dog dish caps on the aluminum wheels?
Rick Bogart
1970 280SL Black(040)/Parchment
1969 280SL Silver(180)/Green
1993 500E
1972 350SL
1995 E320 Cabrio

280SE Guy

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 18:15:31 »
Well I ordered the Porterfield pads from Jerry this morning. It came to $166.00 for all four corners including shipping; $79.00 for the fronts, $69.00 for the rears, and $18.00 shipping. I'm sure it will be worth the price of not having the aggravation of the black dust issue (I hope  :-\).

Thanks for the recommendation Denny.

Regards,

280SE Guy





1971 280SE, 6 Cyl MFI, Anthracite Grey with Grey MB Tex

pagoden

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 04:45:43 »
There may well be something better out there, but if you have nasty brake schmutz to the extent that it's a problem, then I think you'll be happier with the P-fields from at least that standpoint.  I was looking primarily for more braking, and Jim 'promised' that as well.  I've been pleased with the improvements, and if anyone can show us better pads that would be great.  They also claim them to be very easy on the rotors; it seems to me that it will take a few more years to prove that out one way or the other, but so far, so good.  I see the price has gone up:...of course.  I hope they work out well for you and Anthracite.

Well, as to mounting the small 'caps/"dogdishes" on the aluminum (sometimes  aka "alloy") wheels, that has been a little painful and embarrassing, and I still don't understand exactly where I went wrong before finally cobbling it back together.  I'm afraid it has to be down to my craftsmanship, as in "lack thereof": most distressing.  I was following a method developed by a member of the International 190SL Group.  There used to be a good presentation of the whole thing on their website.  Jim Villers, once again, told us Pagodans about this at PUBs of the last few years.  Some of the 190SL folk have used the aluminum rims to upgrade to 14" wheel/tires, and the loss of unsprung and rotational mass is probably most welcome as well.  The last time I went to look for it I didn't succeed.  I'm not sure, but I imagine it's still there and I just need to search better.
I took notes on it originally but neglected to record the name of the man who created the technique for adapting/installing Mercedes' original hardware to these wheels.  When I re-find the info I'll rectify that omission.  He worked up a method of locating and installing profiled "pins" originally installed (as raised rivets) for the purpose of putting the factory small caps on pressed steel wheels back in the good old days - - - Ponton and perhaps prior.  The caps snap over three equidistant pins around the prominent 'ring' feature just out from the lug bolt area.  The pins are available special order from M-B.  In fact, I have a set in M-B plastic parts bags...for sale, I suppose.  There's a bit of labor involved, and some careful measuring . . . 'but how hard could it be, he mused'.  Not the first time I got myself into deep stuff that way.  I think my difficulty lay in the angle of the drilled holes, something I think was not really specified in the otherwise detailed procedure.  The problem I had when I got it all done and popped on the caps was that they fit so tightly going on and off that one of my steel pins actually snapped.  And to compound it, the installed dogdishes fit so loosely when fully in place that they actually rattled . . . at PUB last year.  I was not pleased with my work.  I think an engineer would say I'd created an extreme over-centering situation.  It took awhile to work out a flexible bushing arrangement that seems to be very workable.
I'll try to work up the procedure from my notes if necessary, but much better would be the original source.  I've just verified my inability to find it on the International 190SL Group website.  The area where it was is reached by selecting "Technical Info" from choices appearing under the group photo on their homepage.  Then scroll down to "Wheels & Tires".  One of the photos specifically  accompanying the writeup is still there, as are several photos showing possible choices in wheels and tires.  And the hardware shown in that one ("Clips") is not the part employed by the original writer or by me; this antique gizmo was rejected in favor of the "pin", also a bit of antiquity but simpler, less expensive and more elegant.  If Jim V. doesn't pick up on this thread pretty soon I'll get on to him and see what I can learn.
Happy motoring,
Denny
 

1968/69 280SL, just+100k mi, manual 4, 3.46, both tops, 717/904

harleydan

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Re: No Dust or Low Dust Pads
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 20:57:46 »
I just ordered the forementioned Porterfield brake pads for the front (AP45) and back (AP31) from Livermore Performance (tel: 925-292-5522) for a total of $134.95 which includes $7.95 for shipping.  I can't wait to get them on as I want more braking performance with less brake dust.

Danny
1970 280SL Euro 4-speed