Author Topic: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?  (Read 9603 times)

66andBlue

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Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« on: February 05, 2011, 05:03:31 »
During the restoration of my 280SL the perennial question came up which subframe mount (bushings) kit to buy, the 113 kit or the 108 kit.
The "original" 113 kit sold by Mercedes has now reached the absurd list price of $575, although it is available for for about $400 from other vendors, and there are no aftermarket kits. For the 108 kit the Mercedes list price is $348 but here one can buy an aftermarket kit made by Febi-Bilstein from AutohausAZ for $115.

Searching this forum one can find, however, comments that the rubber mount is not the same in the two kits (supposedly one is a bit longer than the other) and/or the bolts are different. So I tried to find out what the exact differences are between the two kits as they are sold today and with the help of Dave Gallon and Joe Alexander came up with the following.
1. The only difference between the two kits is the absence of the stop plate (p/n 113 330 00 77) in the 108 kit which makes sense since this is a W113 specific part.
2. The rubber mount itself (p/n 111 330 11 75) is exactly the same part in both kits. Thus any notion that one of them is longer is not correct.  As indicated by the part number this item was used in several other cars of the time (220b, 220SEb, 300SEL etc) as shown on page 33-01/7 in the BBB.
3. Therefore,when you plan to replace the subframe mounts buy the 108 kit (p/n 108 330 02 75) but do not throw the old stop plates away since this would be a very costly mistake!
4. I have tried to find out who the current supplier for Mercedes is but had no luck.  In the aftermarket I could find mostly those made by Febi-Bilstein and some made by Lehmförder.
Febi-Bilstein is a family-run company with its own manufacturing capability (http://www.febi.com/febicouk/company/own-production.html) and my bet is that they are supplier for MB.  
I had no hesitation to saving almost $300 and bought the Febi 108 kit.  :)
Here is some documentation with part numbers:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 22:33:23 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

georgem

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 05:56:13 »
Hey Alfred,

I just bought a pair (W113 subframe repair kit) from SLS  for 235 Euro. Which is about $300 US or a touch cheaper in Aust $.

Cheers

George
George McDonald
Brisbane
230 Sl
1973 VW Kombi Single Cab Ute
2022 Volvo XC 40 Pure (100% electric)

66andBlue

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 17:33:57 »
Hello George, thanks for the information.
Who made the parts in the kit that you received?
It appears that SLS sells a hybrid because the German text (not the English one) indicates that at least one part is made by Febi.
It is interesting that they also sell just the stop plate (that is missing in the 108 kit) for EUR 66 each!  I don't believe that one can buy it from MB.
  Just found out that it is available from the Classic Center in Germany at the same price that SLS sells it for.  I don't know whether the Classic Center in Irvine sells it.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 22:40:46 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

georgem

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 19:33:55 »
Alfred,

I checked and I cannot see a brand name on any of the parts. The kit does contain everything though - plates, all washers and bolts as per your diagram.

Drifting slightly off the topic, is there any difference in the components of the two subframes 108 & 113 - springs  - brakes, etc? or could a direct swap be made?

cheers

George
George McDonald
Brisbane
230 Sl
1973 VW Kombi Single Cab Ute
2022 Volvo XC 40 Pure (100% electric)

66andBlue

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 22:37:01 »
  ....  is there any difference in the components of the two subframes 108 & 113 - springs  - brakes, etc? or could a direct swap be made?
Hello George,
that is far beyond my knowledge!  I hope someone will chime in here and tell us.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

badali

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 23:07:33 »
I talked to Tom at the classic center and the mount it self is the same for the 108, 111, and 113.  The part number in my old books for them is the same for each model.  The kits are only available now with mounting hardware.  The 113 kit includes the metal plate.  Not sure why the big difference in price just to have the metal plate.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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W113SL

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 18:41:46 »
The subframe component are the same, however springs would differ for model to model and even with options like power steering and air conditioning..  There was another subframe mount that was available for rugged use for taxis and perhaps ambulances that was made with a much harder rubber.  I have heard of this before but cannot find any reference to it in my workshop manual of the 1971 TDM.  Does anyone know of such mounts?

If it is still available I would like to have a set for my 250SL which I intend to run at Mid-Ohio at the MBCA Gemutlichkeit 2011 this May.

Pete Lesler

ja17

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2011, 20:51:21 »
OK Guys,

Pete needs two more W113 cars at the Mid Ohio Track event to have a W113 class.(three asme mocel cars required min. for a class). Mid Ohio is a an excellent track with a lot of interesting turns, and elevation changes.  It is over two miles long and the grounds and countryside are like a state park. The event is timed (time trials). No hub to hub racing, but you can push as hard as you wish against the clock.

Experienced instructors will be helping and instructing the inexperienced.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Shvegel

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 21:56:22 »
Wow! That means those 2 brand new plates I have in the bottom of my toolbox are worth $300. I never installed the new plates when I put the mounts in because I wanted to keep them nice for when the bodywork is done.

I'm heading for the safety deposit box.

GGR

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2011, 04:08:22 »
I guess these plates are there to reduce front axle vertical travel (compared to the sedans and coupes) due to reduced engine/hood clearance. So you may well end up with a bit more bodywork if you hit a bad pothole without these plates.

ctaylor738

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Re: Subframe mounts, what to buy: 113 kit or 108 kit?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 23:11:52 »
I ordered the Febi kits from Bud's Benz a couple of weeks ago.  They did not have the plates, even though they are shown in their catalog as part of the kits.  I called them and they checked and said that they would send them.  Stay tuned.
Chuck Taylor
1963 230SL #00133
1970 280SL #13027 (restored and sold)
1966 230SL #15274 (sold)
1970 280SL #14076 (sold)
Falls Church VA