Author Topic: Kill switch  (Read 8589 times)

seattle_Jerry

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Kill switch
« on: June 29, 2009, 08:12:04 »
After all my talk about creating a switch that grounds out the + on the coil/distributor...I was under the dash working and noticed a switch I had never seen before. I followed the wires and it was a mystery wire I had left hooked up to the coil.
Low and behold the PO had beat me to it. Sure enough flipping the switch will allow the car to crank all day long but generate no spark.

A little switch under the dash seems a little obvious if you are looking for it.
Do you think it could be hooked to the light switch?
I know my 220D's switch could be turned both directions as well as pulled out.

waltklatt

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 16:12:53 »
Jerry,
Wouldn't do it.
The light switch is already energized with power from the fuse panel to the light switches and to the lights.
If running the wire for the ingition to the coil, will create another channel of power to the lights and vice-versa.
Try another place for the switch.  I can think of a hundred places for a hidden switch.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel hidden vacuum shut off switch.

seattle_Jerry

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 17:33:44 »
Good point! I didn't think about that.

al_lieffring

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 20:57:07 »
jerry
Using one of the European parking light positions of the light switch for a hidden kill switch would be possible, difficult but possible.
First an explination of how the L and R parking lamps work. The terminals PaL and PaR on the head light switch are wired to the front and rear parking lamp bulbs seperate from the Marker lamp bulbs. The head lamp switch when turned to the first left click turns on a front and rear bulb on the right side, then second click, the left side. They get power from terminal Pa on the head light switch, this circuit is energized when the ignition switch when the key is in the OFF position, from terminal P on the key switch.
Terminal P30 on the ignition gets its power from fuse #1.
A kill switch like you are asking about functions by shorting the points to coil lead (#16) to ground (#31). A wire (green would be the correct color) could be strung from coil terminal 16 to either PaL or PaR depending on what position on the light switch you wanted to kill the motor. The original wires going to the two terminals (PaL & PaR) would need to be disconnected and taped off. Next the wire going from Pa on the light switch to P on the key switch woud also need to be disconnected at both ends and taped off. Install a new (brown) wire connecting terminal Pa on the light switch to a ground (31)

I told you that it would be complicated.
Al
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 21:00:48 by al_lieffring »

seattle_Jerry

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2009, 08:13:04 »
Not so bad compared to the trouble it was to figure out why it wasn't starting. Plus my gauges are already out. Thanks for the tip.

gerodan

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2010, 11:50:19 »
I joined the forum just to answer this question. I just installed a similar kill switch in car on the parking light circuit and then decided (belatedly) to check if anyone else had approached it in the same way.

It is actually a very simple and clean way to install a kill switch. It requires no extra wires into the cabin, no drilling of new holes (a problem I faced) through the firewall and it can easily be returned to stock standard with a few deft snips of wire. It requires basic car electrics knowledge and an understanding of relays. I suggest you buy a simple circuit tester and read this: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/hweb2.pdf

Skill with a soldering iron is ideal, but you can be as messy as you like because you'll cover it up with insulating tape afterward.

Materials & Equipment

- 15Amp Wire
- Automotive Relay
- Solder
- Electrical Tape
- Soldering Iron
- Crimp Connectors (if you don't want to solder)
- Cable Ties

Purchase a 60Amp relay. This way it will cope with ANYTHING required of it. The input amps on the coil are normally only 20A but you might as well allow for spikes in current draw. Most relays of such a high amperage will be 5 pin relays, which have a normally-on position and a normally off position so that with the switch off power still runs through on one pole but with the switch on the power runs through the other pole, deactivating the normally on pole. This way, you can do fancy things like wire a switch to flick between two devices.

Step 1: Find your ignition coil and then identify the live wire from the parking lamp nearest to the coil. Cut it and add a new length of wire at the cut. You'll have the power coming along, hitting the join and then going to the parking light and to your loose-end of wire.

Step 3: Wire the loose end of that wire to the comms-pin of your relay. The comms-pins are normally a smaller size than the actual power pins as they only have to deal with the small current running the switch and the bigger pins can run the actual device (in this case, the coil).

Step 4: Wire the other comms-pin to the earth of the car (any bit of bodywork). There are always bolts/screws tapping into bodywork which can be lifted and have a wire attached to them (either use a proper connector shaped like this: --O with a hole on the end to stick the screw through or just wrap the wire around the shaft of the bolt or screw and tighten around the wire. As long as you tighten fully it'll still do the trick.

Step 5: Detach the positive IN from the coil. Cut it halfway along its length, and add extra length of wire on both cut ends. You then attach each of the loose ends of your new wire to the power-pins on the relay. Make sure you attach it to the 'Normally Off' pin so that without the parking lights on it won't start. Reattach the connector the the coil.

Step 6: Insulate all your joins with plenty of electrical tape.

Step 7: Use your cable ties to hold the relay up and out of the way of rainfall or areas where water may accumulate. Cable ties are ideal because they are temporary and will allow you to easily remove the relay should you decide to change your security solution or remove it entirely.

Step 8: Use cable ties to tidy up the wiring.

Here is a schematic:

 -------                             ----
|Lamp| ______________|Join|_______________<<Power in for lamp<<
 -------                             ----- 
                                      |
                                      |
                                      |
                                   ----------
>>Coil Positive IN>>___|RELAY|______>>Power going to Coil
                                   ---------
                                      |
                                      |
                                      |
                                   _____
                                     ___
                                       -
                                   Earth
The beauty of this solution is that it is easily removed either to return the car to standard (remove relay and rejoin wiring at the cuts on the positive IN wire and the parking lamp wire) or if some part of it fails. Most importantly, it is imperceptible from the cabin. With the parking lamps off, the starter motor will turn over, but there will be no spark. It will sound as though the car is out of fuel. With the headlights or parking lights on, the car will spring into life. They also say parking lights in daytime increases the visibility of your cars, so it's road-safety by necessity.

Now, any car thief worth his salt knows that to start a car you only need to:

1. Break the steering lock.
2. Wire the coil straight to the battery
3. Get the starter motor going by briefly jumping it with a cable to the battery.

All the under-dash stuffing about is pure Hollywood. In short, if the thief is anything more than a joy-rider or a heroin-junkie, you need to find a way to keep the engine bay secure and inaccessible. Joy riders will smash up your dash to rewire the ignition key barrell. Professional thieves will rewire your under-hood electrics.

For the cheap junkheap I wired my killswitch into, all I'm trying to deter is joy-riders (as my make/model is notoriously easy to break into and hotwire) and due to a front-shunt to the car you need two people to open the hood; one to pull the release cable, the other to lift up the hood the first part of the way (before you stick your fingers in to un-latch it). For classic Mercs, you might want to look at securing the engine bay somehow so they can't hotwire it through the coil easily.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 11:59:30 by gerodan »

al_lieffring

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2010, 12:52:31 »
"They also say parking lights in daytime increases the visibility of your cars, so it's road-safety by necessity."


Belive it or not, there are states (in America) where it is illegal to drive with the parking lights on during the day time. I got pulled over for this in Iowa and let off with a warning..




gerodan

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2010, 12:58:07 »
Wow. Draconian!

In the mountains west of Sydney the roads authority have erected signage encouraging drivers to turn on their headlights during daylight hours. There should be a discount from the insurance company for the killswitch I described: better security + better safety. Can't see the logic for the Iowa laws at all. Did the officer give you any insight into the reasoning behind the law?

al_lieffring

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 17:48:00 »
It is an old (state) law that has been on the books since before the Federal law requiring cars to have 4 way flashers. The use of parking lights only when stopped on the side of the road though obsolete is still being enforced. This is the reason that the daytime running lamps on GM and Toyota cars are only on the front of the car.
 
At the time I got stopped there was less than 1/4 mile visiblity and I had the amber fog lamps of my 240TD switched on. The fact that the car was wired from the factory to operate with the marker lights on when the fogs were switched on didn't seem to be important to the patrollman.   

xcashewx

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Re: Kill switch
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 17:26:49 »
i use the ravelco in my car, its pretty much just a fancy killswitch. it seems alot harder to defeat than your regular killswitch because its wired to mulitple circuits , on mine i used the  fuel pump and starter circuit., and you can only complete them with a special "key". theres a steel sleeve that protects the wires which is pulled into the engine compartment and blended with the factory wiring. i re-heatshrinked the wiring harness and you cant even tell that its been messed with.
when you pull the "key" out the motor dies, and when the "key" is not inserted and the ignition is turned, nothing happens.
i use this because id rather get my car tore up trying to get hotwired, then to have it completely gone.

i have also wired in a ignition killswitch explained in here, but its simply so i can listen to the radio without burning up the coil.

heres some pictures/
the ravelco
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/EGOmaniac77/IMG_0239.jpg

the wiring harness
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/EGOmaniac77/IMG_0240.jpg