Author Topic: 6-sSpeed Transmission  (Read 6803 times)

Howard Long

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6-sSpeed Transmission
« on: October 22, 2016, 12:36:35 »
Has anyone had any experience with the 6-speed transmission that is offered in E-bay.  I first saw this transmission advertised by a company in Poland and the price was $4999 a couple of years ago.  Then more recently I have seen it advertised by a different company for $6999.  The ratios make it attractive for use with the 4.08 rear axle.  I considered it but at $7000 I finally purchased a reasonably priced 3.27 rear axle instead for my 280SL.  I think that they are converting an existing transmission but I do not know which one.  The photos look a little like the 6-speed in the BMW 335i but I do not know the ratios in that transmission or the size of the case.

I think that you will find it in E-bay under "NEW 6-Speed Manual Transmission / Gearbox for Mercedes 230SL 250SL 280SL Pagoda"

Howard
71 280SL

cfm65@me.com

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 13:54:44 »
Hi Howard,
This gearbox has been discussed on this forum. Try a search.
I believe it is a Polish product and new design specifically for Pagodas and other classic Mercedes cars, not a modified BMW unit.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

Howard Long

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 15:01:14 »
Dear Chris,

I did try a search for "6-speed" and  "6-speed transmission" but did not find anything, maybe that was not the key words to search.  Any ideas.

I thought that it was a Polish design at first but later ads say it is made in Germany.  I tried to communicate with the Polish contact a couple of years ago but did not find out much.  I do remember that their location was in northwest Poland right on the German/Poland line.  I was interested at the time to find out if this was a adaptation of a proven design or a completely new design with no real documented experience.  I finally decided that without a known proven track record I could not consider the cost they wanted. Thanks for your reply.

Howard

Shvegel

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 15:54:23 »
Almost certainly a modified gearbox.  Way too much in there to make a new gearbox for that little money.  my guess is ZF or Getrag.  I used to have pictures of the original offering which looks like they sliced and welded a bell housing on to an original gearbox.  This one looks like they may have recast forward section of the housing and is a neater job.

I searched for quite a while but never found a match.

66andBlue

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 17:53:03 »
Dear Chris,
I did try a search for "6-speed" and  "6-speed transmission" but did not find anything, maybe that was not the key words to search.  Any ideas.
I thought that it was a Polish design at first but later ads say it is made in Germany.  I tried to communicate with the Polish contact a couple of years ago but did not find out much.  I do remember that their location was in northwest Poland right on the German/Poland line.  I was interested at the time to find out if this was a adaptation of a proven design or a completely new design with no real documented experience.  I finally decided that without a known proven track record I could not consider the cost they wanted. Thanks for your reply.
Howard
Howard,
the 6-speed is indeed made by a company called S&SG (Sport und Schon Ganggetriebe) located in Poland.
In Germany they are sold by: http://oldtimer-ersatzteile24.de/6-Gang-Getriebe-fuer-Mercedes-250SL-280SL-W113 [5,454 EUR without VAT]
and in the US, Karl Midelhauve (http://www.mbgrand600.com/Page1.html) has bought a few of them and installed them in his cars. Contact him for details on these trannies if you are interested, he may have one left.
There is also one currently listed on eBay by a broker, not sure how much experience they have with installation:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-6-Speed-Manual-Transmission-Gearbox-for-Mercedes-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagoda-/162237994089?vxp=mtr


Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Shvegel

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 01:00:52 by Shvegel »

Howard Long

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2016, 03:08:42 »
I agree that it is most likely a modified version of another existing gearbox maybe the Getrag in the BMW 1 or 3 series.  They may be manufacturing a new bell housing that includes the front 1/3 or so of the gearbox.  They may also be providing a different set of gear ratios just for the Pagoda. 

I checked my BMW 335 manual and guess what?   BMW doesn't provide either the rear axle ratio or the various gear ratios for the transmission in the owners manual.  I also checked the Service Manual for the 540 that had for many years and it does not show the ratios either.  I guess we just would not or should not want to know.

It has been a fun chase but I guess I will have to live with my 4-speed and see how it plays with the 3.27 rear when I get the 280SL back on the road.

Howard

Benz Dr.

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 05:16:07 »
Have you installed the 3.27 axle yet? If you have, you sure won't want to stick a 6 speed trans in there with it. In fact, I think a 6 speed is over kill for a car that has a high RPM engine like a pagoda. There isn't much of a torque band below 2,500 RPM and all of this high gearing will keep your engine speed too low at a normal road speed. My ZF runs around 3,000 RPM at 60 MPH.
As long as you have places where you can drive 80 MPH without being pulled over then maybe........
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Howard Long

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 16:34:24 »
I agree that the 3.27 and the 6-speed would not be compatible.  I made the decision to pass on the 6-speed a couple of years ago but when I tried to search the Pagoda SL info and did not get any response to the a 6-speed transmission, I thought I would bring it up for discussion.  Sorry I did not find that it had been discussed before on these forums.

I am probably still 2 years away for getting the 280SL back together.  Today it is sheet metal work to recreate the bottom 4 inches of the front of the right rear fender between the passenger door and the right rear wheel well.  The rust had got that area in a bad way and I did not find any reproduction metal for that area other than the entire bottom half of the fender.  It will take several small pieces to recreate that 4 by 8 inch piece of fender but it is something I can do.  Although I can use a metal shrinker for other parts, this is the place that i could not do very well without justifying the cost of a Shrinker and a Stretcher.

I have attached a photo of where I am working on the bottom of the right rear fender and a photo of the complex piece on the bottom of the fender that joins with the rocker panel.  This piece in only one of 4 pieces that will recreate the fender area.

Howard
71 280SL 4-speed

guyke

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 17:37:23 »
i know one fact , al these 6 speed after market  gearboxes are way to expensive  :-[ :-[

Benz Dr.

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 18:23:55 »
I agree that the 3.27 and the 6-speed would not be compatible.  I made the decision to pass on the 6-speed a couple of years ago but when I tried to search the Pagoda SL info and did not get any response to the a 6-speed transmission, I thought I would bring it up for discussion.  Sorry I did not find that it had been discussed before on these forums.

I am probably still 2 years away for getting the 280SL back together.  Today it is sheet metal work to recreate the bottom 4 inches of the front of the right rear fender between the passenger door and the right rear wheel well.  The rust had got that area in a bad way and I did not find any reproduction metal for that area other than the entire bottom half of the fender.  It will take several small pieces to recreate that 4 by 8 inch piece of fender but it is something I can do.  Although I can use a metal shrinker for other parts, this is the place that i could not do very well without justifying the cost of a Shrinker and a Stretcher.

I have attached a photo of where I am working on the bottom of the right rear fender and a photo of the complex piece on the bottom of the fender that joins with the rocker panel.  This piece in only one of 4 pieces that will recreate the fender area.

Howard
71 280SL 4-speed

I'm kind of thinking that a patch panel is available for that area. Did you check with K&K?
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Howard Long

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2016, 20:18:20 »
I called K & K and asked for that patch panel and they said sure they had it.  When it showed up is was for a W107 car.  When I called to send it back the nice lady said sorry my mistake, i did know you had a W113 car.  She then said that years ago someone else made such a panel but at the present time she did not know of anyone that was producing that specific panel.

I did try but making that panel is giving me a challenge but I will get thru it..

Howard

billhon

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Re: 6-sSpeed Transmission
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 17:56:09 »
There is a gentleman in Austin Texas who installs the gear tag 6-speed. I was there 2 years ago and rode in a 230 SL with this transmission and found it very likeable. If it wasn't for the cost I would opt for this conversion. I don't recall his name but he has a complete kit available for the change out.