Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Howard Long on October 22, 2016, 12:36:35
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Has anyone had any experience with the 6-speed transmission that is offered in E-bay. I first saw this transmission advertised by a company in Poland and the price was $4999 a couple of years ago. Then more recently I have seen it advertised by a different company for $6999. The ratios make it attractive for use with the 4.08 rear axle. I considered it but at $7000 I finally purchased a reasonably priced 3.27 rear axle instead for my 280SL. I think that they are converting an existing transmission but I do not know which one. The photos look a little like the 6-speed in the BMW 335i but I do not know the ratios in that transmission or the size of the case.
I think that you will find it in E-bay under "NEW 6-Speed Manual Transmission / Gearbox for Mercedes 230SL 250SL 280SL Pagoda"
Howard
71 280SL
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Hi Howard,
This gearbox has been discussed on this forum. Try a search.
I believe it is a Polish product and new design specifically for Pagodas and other classic Mercedes cars, not a modified BMW unit.
Regards
Chris
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Dear Chris,
I did try a search for "6-speed" and "6-speed transmission" but did not find anything, maybe that was not the key words to search. Any ideas.
I thought that it was a Polish design at first but later ads say it is made in Germany. I tried to communicate with the Polish contact a couple of years ago but did not find out much. I do remember that their location was in northwest Poland right on the German/Poland line. I was interested at the time to find out if this was a adaptation of a proven design or a completely new design with no real documented experience. I finally decided that without a known proven track record I could not consider the cost they wanted. Thanks for your reply.
Howard
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Almost certainly a modified gearbox. Way too much in there to make a new gearbox for that little money. my guess is ZF or Getrag. I used to have pictures of the original offering which looks like they sliced and welded a bell housing on to an original gearbox. This one looks like they may have recast forward section of the housing and is a neater job.
I searched for quite a while but never found a match.
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Dear Chris,
I did try a search for "6-speed" and "6-speed transmission" but did not find anything, maybe that was not the key words to search. Any ideas.
I thought that it was a Polish design at first but later ads say it is made in Germany. I tried to communicate with the Polish contact a couple of years ago but did not find out much. I do remember that their location was in northwest Poland right on the German/Poland line. I was interested at the time to find out if this was a adaptation of a proven design or a completely new design with no real documented experience. I finally decided that without a known proven track record I could not consider the cost they wanted. Thanks for your reply.
Howard
Howard,
the 6-speed is indeed made by a company called S&SG (Sport und Schon Ganggetriebe) located in Poland.
In Germany they are sold by: http://oldtimer-ersatzteile24.de/6-Gang-Getriebe-fuer-Mercedes-250SL-280SL-W113 [5,454 EUR without VAT]
and in the US, Karl Midelhauve (http://www.mbgrand600.com/Page1.html) has bought a few of them and installed them in his cars. Contact him for details on these trannies if you are interested, he may have one left.
There is also one currently listed on eBay by a broker, not sure how much experience they have with installation:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-6-Speed-Manual-Transmission-Gearbox-for-Mercedes-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagoda-/162237994089?vxp=mtr
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Some form of Getrag GS6 with the front sliced off and a Mercedes bellhousing welded on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-1-3-SERIES-E87-E90-E91-N43-START-STOP-GEARBOX-6-SPEED-GETRAG-GS6-17BG-TAPZ-/322281434004
Possible bellhousing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Mercedes-W123-280-Gearbox-4-speed-1152612501-/152288000878?hash=item2375127b6e:g:EyoAAOSwXeJYCMMR
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I agree that it is most likely a modified version of another existing gearbox maybe the Getrag in the BMW 1 or 3 series. They may be manufacturing a new bell housing that includes the front 1/3 or so of the gearbox. They may also be providing a different set of gear ratios just for the Pagoda.
I checked my BMW 335 manual and guess what? BMW doesn't provide either the rear axle ratio or the various gear ratios for the transmission in the owners manual. I also checked the Service Manual for the 540 that had for many years and it does not show the ratios either. I guess we just would not or should not want to know.
It has been a fun chase but I guess I will have to live with my 4-speed and see how it plays with the 3.27 rear when I get the 280SL back on the road.
Howard
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Have you installed the 3.27 axle yet? If you have, you sure won't want to stick a 6 speed trans in there with it. In fact, I think a 6 speed is over kill for a car that has a high RPM engine like a pagoda. There isn't much of a torque band below 2,500 RPM and all of this high gearing will keep your engine speed too low at a normal road speed. My ZF runs around 3,000 RPM at 60 MPH.
As long as you have places where you can drive 80 MPH without being pulled over then maybe........
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I agree that the 3.27 and the 6-speed would not be compatible. I made the decision to pass on the 6-speed a couple of years ago but when I tried to search the Pagoda SL info and did not get any response to the a 6-speed transmission, I thought I would bring it up for discussion. Sorry I did not find that it had been discussed before on these forums.
I am probably still 2 years away for getting the 280SL back together. Today it is sheet metal work to recreate the bottom 4 inches of the front of the right rear fender between the passenger door and the right rear wheel well. The rust had got that area in a bad way and I did not find any reproduction metal for that area other than the entire bottom half of the fender. It will take several small pieces to recreate that 4 by 8 inch piece of fender but it is something I can do. Although I can use a metal shrinker for other parts, this is the place that i could not do very well without justifying the cost of a Shrinker and a Stretcher.
I have attached a photo of where I am working on the bottom of the right rear fender and a photo of the complex piece on the bottom of the fender that joins with the rocker panel. This piece in only one of 4 pieces that will recreate the fender area.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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i know one fact , al these 6 speed after market gearboxes are way to expensive :-[ :-[
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I agree that the 3.27 and the 6-speed would not be compatible. I made the decision to pass on the 6-speed a couple of years ago but when I tried to search the Pagoda SL info and did not get any response to the a 6-speed transmission, I thought I would bring it up for discussion. Sorry I did not find that it had been discussed before on these forums.
I am probably still 2 years away for getting the 280SL back together. Today it is sheet metal work to recreate the bottom 4 inches of the front of the right rear fender between the passenger door and the right rear wheel well. The rust had got that area in a bad way and I did not find any reproduction metal for that area other than the entire bottom half of the fender. It will take several small pieces to recreate that 4 by 8 inch piece of fender but it is something I can do. Although I can use a metal shrinker for other parts, this is the place that i could not do very well without justifying the cost of a Shrinker and a Stretcher.
I have attached a photo of where I am working on the bottom of the right rear fender and a photo of the complex piece on the bottom of the fender that joins with the rocker panel. This piece in only one of 4 pieces that will recreate the fender area.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
I'm kind of thinking that a patch panel is available for that area. Did you check with K&K?
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I called K & K and asked for that patch panel and they said sure they had it. When it showed up is was for a W107 car. When I called to send it back the nice lady said sorry my mistake, i did know you had a W113 car. She then said that years ago someone else made such a panel but at the present time she did not know of anyone that was producing that specific panel.
I did try but making that panel is giving me a challenge but I will get thru it..
Howard
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There is a gentleman in Austin Texas who installs the gear tag 6-speed. I was there 2 years ago and rode in a 230 SL with this transmission and found it very likeable. If it wasn't for the cost I would opt for this conversion. I don't recall his name but he has a complete kit available for the change out.