Author Topic: early sun visor clips ? (color selection) (Read 34259 times)

benzportland · « **on:** June 19, 2008, 23:30:04 »

I have not seen a thread directly on this topic - what's the deal with sun visor clips? It's my understand that what is currently being sold my the Classic Center and others is not correct and/or may not even function? I ask because my visors seem to be from a sedan (white on one side, black on other) but I am not sure if the clips are original. Anyone out there interested in making repros?

UPDATE:

So it looks like there are two versions? My thinking is that the version without the metal clip would obviously be easier to reproduce (assuming those with metal clips would also need metal clips made). I'm not sure what would be involved with reproducing the metal clip but perhaps someone else out there would have some ideas?

To produce both versions would require two more moulds and more testing, which would likely increase the price. Anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed?

hauser · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2008, 00:36:47 »

Try the Classic Center.

hauser · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2008, 00:37:20 »

Gernold at SLTech has them for sale.

scoot · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2008, 11:50:48 »

quote:
Originally posted by hauser

Try the Classic Center.

The Classic Center will sell you absolutely the wrong clips which do not function. (I'm assuming a 230 SL or early 250 SL - not sure about a later style). The clips that they sell are sort of ivory colored and if you set them on there base on a horizontal surface, the groove where the visor connects is completely horizontal. This is not correct. If you set the original ones on a horizontal surface, the groove will be slightly at an angle, just as the visor itself is where it meets the clip when installed in your car. Miller's also sells the same incorrect clip.

benzportland · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2008, 13:05:26 »

Thanks and I was wondering too if this was the same for all models, so it sounds like what is out there now is definetly incorrect for early versions, but they are being sold as correct. I am wondering if anyone would be good enough to post pics of the old vs. new and any other variations? This would be really frustrating to buy new visors and have clips that do not work, and I hear that this part usually breaks every several years anyway. I wonder if Kay, who manufactured the repro visors, would be able/interested in making the correct clips?

quote:
Originally posted by scoot

quote:
Originally posted by hauser

Try the Classic Center.
The Classic Center will sell you absolutely the wrong clips which do not function. (I'm assuming a 230 SL or early 250 SL - not sure about a later style). The clips that they sell are sort of ivory colored and if you set them on there base on a horizontal surface, the groove where the visor connects is completely horizontal. This is not correct. If you set the original ones on a horizontal surface, the groove will be slightly at an angle, just as the visor itself is where it meets the clip when installed in your car. Miller's also sells the same incorrect clip.

66andBlue · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2008, 15:12:09 »

I don't have a pic of the later visor clip but here is a picture showing the 230SL visor clips.
They may be hard to reproduce because one edge is right angle to the base and the other tilted and in addition the top is a bit slanted making the right edge (as seen in the pic) a bit shorter. This is clearly noticeable for the metal insert. I believe (but am not sure) the "front/lower" wall may be thicker and a bit more convex than the "rear/top" wall.

scoot · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2008, 18:22:46 »

Here's the comparison photo I used when trying to explain to someone what the problem was. It shows the new (non-functional) one.

benzportland · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2008, 18:39:53 »

Excellent reference / resource. Much appreciated!!

rwmastel · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2008, 06:37:50 »

Scoot,

Hi. Excellent picture showing the problem, but could you resize it, or post it as a link or something? I believe most people find it annoying to have to scroll left/right to read text because of a large photo.

Peter van Es · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2008, 09:31:51 »

I just resized Scoot's picture, which I could do because it was uploaded to our server. When people link to externally hosted pictures, please ensure the dimensions of the picture (horizontally) do NOT exceed 800 pixels... when you link externally, I cannot fix it, you see.

For futher info, please see http://www.sl113.org/forums/faq.asp#GetForum

Peter

J. Huber · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2008, 22:50:18 »

Well, about 3 years ago I purchased new clips from Ray at the old SL Classics. My old ones had two hairline cracks. The new ones looked very cheap to me -- so much so that I decided to use a washer and live with my originals. But ironically, (as to this thread), my old ones just started getting worse.

So, today, I took the old ones off, compared them side by side to the new ones, and then proceeded to install the new ones. Here are my findings:

The new ones are definitely smaller and more generic looking.

Old and new: Download Attachment:

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They are almost white whereas the old ones were a light grey. With my car and dash being white, they kind of go with the interior.

Download Attachment:

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They do fit and yes they do hold the visor in place. If I could get the real deal, I may change back someday but for now they are ok.

Oh and by the way, be careful not to drop the screws... I did and down it went into the abyss that is "under the seat." I knew I was in trouble -- its really hard to get to under there. So, you all will be proud: I invented my first tool ... turned out to be quite lucrative!

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benzportland · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2008, 20:59:25 »

I did some research and found someone who makes moulds and recreates obscure plastic automotive parts. I sent him a pic of a clip and he said the price would be $125.00 for the mould, and $10.00 for each piece. I realized after that we will actually need two moulds, so I would assume $250.00 plus $10.00 each. This was for one hundred pieces. So, a new set would be $25.00. I am wondering if there is enough interest at that price, assuming the quality of the pieces was acceptable?

franjo_66 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2008, 04:26:08 »

I think that the indicative price is very reasonable. So I would definitely purchase a set. Let us know how it goes !

Rgds
Frank
1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD

blue230sl · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:23:00 »

i would purchase a set also.

scoot · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:04:24 »

I would buy a set.

Anfinn · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:08:46 »

I would buy a set.

scoot · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2008, 11:29:16 »

OK, now I am _really_ confused. J. Huber shows a picture of an old-style clip compared with the new ones that is totally different from my picture of the old-style clip as compared with the new one. We all seem to agree on what the new one looks like, but there seem to be two different old-style clips. Compare the pictures in the thread. And compare with the one on ebay that ends in 9 hours. Item #130232101327 -- I was going to buy this but now I see that it isn't what I need at all, but perhaps it is what one of you need. I need what is shown in 66andBlue's post. I don't need what is shown as the first picture in J. Huber's post. Very confusing....

J. Huber · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2008, 12:17:54 »

I kind of see what you mean Scott. The Ebay one does look like mine. And I spent a lot of time trying to see the pronounced "slant" that Alfred's have. Mine is really not so slanted. So I wonder if there was an "early" 230 clip and a later 230 clip. Not really sure. But I may try for the Ebay item!

jszeman1 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2008, 13:09:32 »

I would buy a set

scoot · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2008, 13:23:07 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

I kind of see what you mean Scott. The Ebay one does look like mine. And I spent a lot of time trying to see the pronounced "slant" that Alfred's have. Mine is really not so slanted. So I wonder if there was an "early" 230 clip and a later 230 clip. Not really sure. But I may try for the Ebay item!

Get the ebay item. I am trying to cancel my auction sniper bid for the item but auction sniper's site seems to be down!!!!

benzportland · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2008, 17:07:01 »

I am thinking part of the confusion might be the different orientation of the pictures. I've taken some of mine, which comes from a '65 230, chassis no. 009988 (March 29, 1965). It did not have a metal clip/insert, it is solid. On the underside are the characters "GHE" and "113." The length of the base is 4.5 cm, height is 2.7, width of base is 1.6. So, based on these pics I am thinking this could be a third version for the 230sl.

~~Can't get pics to load at this time will have to try later.~~

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scoot · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2008, 17:24:46 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

I am thinking part of the confusion might be the different orientation of the pictures. I've taken some of mine, which comes from a '65 230, chassis no. 009988 (March 29, 1965). It did not have a metal clip/insert, it is solid. On the underside are the characters "GHE" and "113." The length of the base is 4.5 cm, height is 2.7, width of base is 1.6.

Can't get pics to load at this time will have to try later.

I am pretty confident that we are still talking about three different styles of clips:

1. the ones that are depicted in J Huber's post - the first picture showing his old clip and the new MB clip

2. the ones that are depicted in my post and in 66andBlue's post -- both of these posts show a possibly later version of an old-style clip that DOES have a metal portion inside. (In case there is any confusion, my clips match what 66andBlue shows, his picture is just better.

3. the new "replacement" clips available from MB and other vendors which are shown as the new clip in my post and in J Huber's first picture post.

I'm thinking that there is also a later style clip that goes for a 280 SL -- is that correct?

For my car the critical part is the angle of the clip where the visor end meets the clip -- shown quite clearly in 66andBlue's post. Without that tilt the clip doesn't hold the visor at all.

Scott

J. Huber · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2008, 20:42:21 »

Hey Scott. I am about to grab the ebay item. Hope your snipe thing is disabled! And everyone else is having dinner or something! Stay tuned!

66andBlue · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2008, 21:48:46 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
... So I wonder if there was an "early" 230 clip and a later 230 clip. Not really sure. ...

Hi James,
two distinguishing features of your "old" clip and the one on ebay (that's now yours too

) are the hexagonal base compared to the narrower, more oval base of your "newer" one, and mine and Scott's. And I believe the old one also has a straight base while the others are curved.
I wonder whether your old one did not come from a sedan from the same time? I believe that the spot where the clip is attached in the sedans is flat while in ours it is curved and hence the clip needs to be curved too.
Perhaps Waqas can show us what his looks on the sedan.

J. Huber · « **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2008, 22:28:38 »

Well Alfred, yes it looks like I am the proud owner of that clip. I figured it at least looks like my old ones -- and since one of mine is still decent, I have a back-up pair. You could be right about mine being from a sedan but I'd be curious what other early 230s look like. Jaco? or Paul or Achim may be able to help...

My three definitely have a hex base. To really complicate things, I notice the clip on Gernold's SL Tech page is yet another style...

benzportland · « **Reply #25 on:** June 25, 2008, 22:31:35 »

Finally got my pics loaded - see below

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Well Alfred, yes it looks like I am the proud owner of that clip. I figured it at least looks like my old ones -- and since one of mine is still decent, I have a back-up pair. You could be right about mine being from a sedan but I'd be curious what other early 230s look like. Jaco? or Paul or Achim may be able to help...

My three definitely have a hex base. To really complicate things, I notice the clip on Gernold's SL Tech page is yet another style...

waqas · « **Reply #26 on:** June 25, 2008, 23:48:47 »

Looks like your clips are identical to mine. (the colour of mine appears to be a light beige/tan), matching my 210 "natural leather" interior. Incidentally, my car is also a '65 230sl, with chassis nr. 010052. Perhaps they had different versions over the years of production?

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

I am thinking part of the confusion might be the different orientation of the pictures. I've taken some of mine, which comes from a '65 230, chassis no. 009988 (March 29, 1965). It did not have a metal clip/insert, it is solid. On the underside are the characters "GHE" and "113." The length of the base is 4.5 cm, height is 2.7, width of base is 1.6. So, based on these pics I am thinking this could be a third version for the 230sl.

~~Can't get pics to load at this time will have to try later.~~

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66andBlue · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2008, 00:16:20 »

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

benzportland · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2008, 00:27:56 »

Quote

Originally posted by waqas

Looks like your clips are identical to mine. Perhaps they had different versions over the years of production?

I am thinking there must have been at least three versions for the 230sl.

waqas · « **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:26:52 »

Hi Alfred,

Sounds like a good idea. I'll post some later today.

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

jacovdw · « **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:17:48 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

but I'd be curious what other early 230s look like. Jaco? or Paul or Achim may be able to help...

James,

I have been following this thread with interest. Unfortunately, the previous owner used sunvisors and clips from a sedan [

!]

So, I guess that I'm in for a new set of sunvisors and clips... :?

benzportland · « **Reply #31 on:** June 26, 2008, 20:35:05 »

With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. I would prefer mine with the 113 markings and no inner clip, and I assume this would work on others as well. Wondering if anyone is still interested.

scoot · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2008, 16:55:42 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. I would prefer mine with the 113 markings and no inner clip, and I assume this would work on others as well. Wondering if anyone is still interested.

I actually would like the one with the metal clip inside, or at least to compare them back-to-back and see if the footprint is the same and the angle of the slot is the same...

waqas · « **Reply #33 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:50:57 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

Finally got around to this. Apologies in advance for the poor photograph. These are from my 1966 250SE/Coupe. They are mounted to the roof, not the windshield frame.

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They are very different from the my 1965 230SL sunvisor clips, which are a one-piece plastic affair without the metal insert and with "113" engraved underneath, and look similarly slanted as the clips shown on the right in Scoot's picture here:

Scoot's Clips

Note that the coupe and sedan clips are mounted to the roof, not the windshield frame. This might explain why they are not slanted like the 113 clips. I'd be interested to know whether the 111 cabriolet clips are similar to the 113 clips or not.

It looks like the classic center is selling only the coupe and sedan clips, and not the 113-specific slanted ones. It also appears that the 113 clips come in two varieties: with and without metal insert, but both slanted. The horizontal clips are clearly for the sedan and coupes.

wwheeler · « **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2008, 14:30:32 »

Waqas,

My '68 111 coupe visor clips have the same look as your '66 coupe clips. The big difference is that my metal insert is different and I have cone shaped metal washers that fit under the pan head screws. My metal insert is a "U" shape that fits inside the plastic clip just where the visor pops into the clip and nowhere else. The metal insert is what provides the spring fit for the visor. I recently replaced mine (from the Classic Center) and they were exactly as the originals. Just a little more info.

66andBlue · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2008, 23:34:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland
With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. ...

Hold your horses, benzportland, we are still in the discovery phase, are we not?

Looking at spare parts lists for the 230SL I can only find one part number for the clip: 113 811 0140.
That p/n was good till halfway through the 250SL production run (actually until chassis number 2979, so early 250SL and 230SL should have the same clip) when it was replaced by p/n 113 811 0240, which is also correct for the 280SL.
Now it is possible that there was a 113 811 0040, perhaps a preproduction number, or an actual valid number for very early 230SLs.
Could this be Huber's hexagonal clip?? Looks like his clip didn't come from a coupe and could be an original one.
But somehow it looks too big for me ... :?:
Anyone out there with an original very early 230SL who could post a picture please???

114015 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 01, 2008, 04:53:10 »

Dear Friends,

Very good observations up to here.
Alfred, Scott & benzportland are correct. Only the flat style slanted sunvisor clips are correct for the 230/250 SL up to serial 002979.
The old ones that James had in his white 230 SL are not correct. Either 280 SL or /8 sedan or anything else.
The new replacement is also not correct - sedan style as you mentioned.

The clips that came off my parted-out 1963 230 are clearly the solid type, not more really grey but they have faded to a more tan color, are very brittle and almost like solid rubber & have the 113GHE embossment (GHE = Gebrueder Happich, Elberfeld).

The ones of the '64 are a little different, not solid but hollow and have the metal clip inside.
Alfred is right, the number for the 230/250-early part never changed, still these are "variants" (this is the case for many parts where the parts number never changed ... e.g. ashtray).

I have a few of these clips flying around anywhere, most are old. I will check them again the upcoming weekend...
But I am confident, there are no additional findings to what we already have here.

In summary:
230 SL/250 SL up to serial 002979:
one part number (113 811 0140), two different versions:
Old style is solid, newer style is more plastic, nonsolid but with internal metal clip.

Then there is the later style 250 SL late/280 SL clip (113 811 0240)which looks more (ore identical?) to James old ones.

Best,
Achim

J. Huber · « **Reply #37 on:** July 01, 2008, 11:55:22 »

Hey Achim. Great information as always! I am ready to concede my original grey clips were not "original" in the real sense of the word. Impossible to know when they were changed. Pretty sure it had to be pre-1980. The only thing that puzzles me is the Ebay vendor's description for the exact one to mine as "early 113." Sure he could be misinformed -- but it is an interesting coincidence.

Does anyone else (any model) have the hex based clips?

egggplant · « **Reply #38 on:** July 03, 2008, 13:27:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Now it is possible that there was a 113 811 0040, perhaps a preproduction number, or an actual valid number for very early 230SLs.

Hi 66andBlue:

Good post. I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40"

I doubt the part number would be included just for preproduction cars.

66andBlue · « **Reply #39 on:** July 03, 2008, 15:47:47 »

quote:
Originally posted by egggplant

...I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40" ...

Excellent!
Now what we need is a picture of this early 0040 clip.
And a correct part number for the hexagonal clip would be helpful too.

waqas · « **Reply #40 on:** July 03, 2008, 16:48:30 »

My dealer parts manual (230sl, Edition C, 10126) only lists the 113 811 0140 part, but refers to a footnote that says: "up to chassis 011207".

It says nothing about what part number is used after that chassis number. Very odd.

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:
Originally posted by egggplant

...I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40" ...

Excellent!
Now what we need is a picture of this early 0040 clip.
And a correct part number for the hexagonal clip would be helpful too.

waqas · « **Reply #41 on:** July 03, 2008, 16:55:35 »

My dealer parts manual for the 250sl/280sl (Edition B, 10142) lists the following parts:

250 SL:
113 811 0140 up to chassis 002979
113 811 0240 from chassis 002980

280 SL:
113 811 0240 for all chassis numbers

114015 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2008, 13:47:50 »

Agree with Waqas.

Everything else is very odd.
Eggplant, which "original parts manual" are you referring to? There are only three factory ones and the one Waqas cites (Edition C, 10126 as of January 1967) is the last offical one. It is still valid by the way ...

Achim

egggplant · « **Reply #43 on:** July 04, 2008, 17:35:25 »

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

Agree with Waqas.

Everything else is very odd.
Eggplant, which "original parts manual" are you referring to?

Achim

The parts book I have is Edition B, November 1964

Graham

66andBlue · « **Reply #44 on:** July 04, 2008, 17:52:15 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

.. I am ready to concede my original grey clips were not "original" in the real sense of the word. Impossible to know when they were changed. Pretty sure it had to be pre-1980...

Hello James,
no concessions necessary

but you are correct, they are pre-1980. They are most likely from a W108 model (250S, 250SE,280S,280SE, 280SEL). I have a parts "Catalog A" for the W108 which shows a hexagonal clip:

Now going back to the initial post, benzportland are you still planning to reproduce the clip? I would like to get one as long as it has the tilt. It is not absolutely necessary to have the metal clip but it needs to grip the visor.

J. Huber · « **Reply #45 on:** July 04, 2008, 21:21:13 »

Hey Alfred. Well, that certainly looks like the beast! It's not far-fetched that a PO needed a quick clip -- and that maybe the 108s were easier to come by.

Anyway, I have received my new old non-original one to go with my original non-original old one... huh? :?:

waqas · « **Reply #46 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:10:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

My thinking is that the version without the metal clip would obviously be easier to reproduce (assuming those with metal clips would also need metal clips made). I'm not sure what would be involved with reproducing the metal clip but perhaps someone else out there would have some ideas?

The version with the metal clip would probably be more durable. I wonder if the metal clip from a new clip can be modified to have the slant?

66andBlue · « **Reply #47 on:** July 09, 2008, 21:45:07 »

Since "scoot" has a pair of the clips that are currently sold by MB (solid body, without the metal inser) he could answer some questions and do a test to help us out here.
1. When you hold the clip with your hands does its groove grip the visor firmly? Or can you shake it loose? If the clip has a good grip then we can assume that the metal insert is not necessary.
2. Would you be willing to take a drill bit and grind the groove in such a way that it now slants as the old one does? I'd be curious whether that is all that is necessary to make the thing fit.

If those two tests are somewhat satisfactory then I suggest to make a replica of a solid clip without metal insert and with the correct horizontal and vertical slants.

waqas · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:54:02 »

Part of the problem with the solid plastic clips is that they get brittle with age and then break off. I suspect the ones with the metal insert will be less prone to this. Of course, better plastics should be able to prevent this from happening...

scoot · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2008, 09:33:50 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Since "scoot" has a pair of the clips that are currently sold by MB (solid body, without the metal inser) he could answer some questions and do a test to help us out here.
1. When you hold the clip with your hands does its groove grip the visor firmly? Or can you shake it loose? If the clip has a good grip then we can assume that the metal insert is not necessary.
2. Would you be willing to take a drill bit and grind the groove in such a way that it now slants as the old one does? I'd be curious whether that is all that is necessary to make the thing fit.

If those two tests are somewhat satisfactory then I suggest to make a replica of a solid clip without metal insert and with the correct horizontal and vertical slants.

1. If the clip isn't attached to the car, but just to the visor, I believe it would hold onto it successfully. When I experimented with them, I had the clip attached to the car and it would not hold the visor in place, but that was because the visor rod came into the clip at an angle rather than completely horizontal as the clip is designed.
2. I think that one could do that with the clip (just to see if it works) but I think it would look like crap. Of course if it were just to see if it fits so that reproductions could be made, it might serve that purpose. I can't do this since I have returned the clips already.

My suggestion is that if you are going to fabricate the clip, use one of the existing old clips as the model rather than drilling one of the new ones -- I think it would be far more accurate, with or without the metal insert.

J. Huber · « **Reply #50 on:** July 10, 2008, 11:12:09 »

Nothing new to add -- I just wanted to re-mention that the clips I bought from Ray at Bud's do work fine on my car (as did my apparent W108 hexies for that matter). The repros are white not grey -- and straight not slanted -- but they do hold the visor in place. The visors, BTW, are repros from Miller's. I like my visors almost upright and they stay clipped at 110.

(ok ok that's Kilometers not Miles...)

benzportland · « **Reply #51 on:** July 10, 2008, 19:27:31 »

I am thinking that if someone wanted to make the new clips work, a rubber pad at the base with the correct pitch would work to offset the clip so that it meets the visor rod correctly.

114015 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:31:01 »

Maybe you are right...

... but this will be clearly visible and since many of us have this problem I propose we should get head for a correct reproduction.

As was already mentioned here before, the initial solid type is more of a rubber-like plastic and that aged badly and tends to brake (my three ones are all broken).

So, if we want to get a solid-type reproduction it should be of a better plastic quality. The old one is by far not durable enough for ++44 years. The next one should!

If we decide for the hollow type it must have the metal clip otherwise the lips (which hold the sunvisor rod) tend to break with the time, I have seen those.
Any choice will be ok as long as it will be a high quality reproduction and grey (white is not original).

If we go for this - I'll order six.

Thanks guys for all your input

Achim
1971 230/8 W114
1999 A4 B5 1.8
(& lots of crummy SL parts)

66andBlue · « **Reply #53 on:** July 11, 2008, 11:30:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

... Any choice will be ok as long as it will be a high quality reproduction and grey (white is not original). ..

Hallo Achim,
"white" may not be original but I believe that "beige" is for the late 230SL. My original clips certainly are NOT gray (at best a grayish beige) - and I doubt that gray turns beige over time.
But one can always spray paint them in the desired color, I guess

waqas · « **Reply #54 on:** July 11, 2008, 13:52:39 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

... Any choice will be ok as long as it will be a high quality reproduction and grey (white is not original). ..

Hallo Achim,
"white" may not be original but I believe that "beige" is for the late 230SL. My original clips certainly are NOT gray (at best a grayish beige) - and I doubt that gray turns beige over time.
But one can always spray paint them in the desired color, I guess

Alfred is correct, I can confirm that clips from both my 1965 230sl's (008522 and 010052) are beige.

66andBlue · « **Reply #55 on:** July 11, 2008, 22:22:52 »

Benzportland,
if you plan to go further with this here are the dimensions of the clip and a better color rendition:

and the metal insert:

I'll be happy to email you the high res pictures.

scoot · « **Reply #56 on:** July 11, 2008, 22:41:27 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Benzportland,
if you plan to go further with this here are the dimensions of the clip and a better color rendition:
and the metal insert:

I would be happy to purchase clips like this if someone reproduces them. I have one good one and one cracked one.

benzportland · « **Reply #57 on:** July 11, 2008, 23:43:21 »

Thank you for the research and measurements! We would need to send a pair of these in for the moulds. I am not sure about the metal stamping, I will check and see if the guy I have been talking too has any ideas for that piece; I know it is possible but usually much more costly for that type of work.

benzportland · « **Reply #58 on:** July 15, 2008, 12:13:16 »

Okay I have an estimate on the metal clip pieces - thanks again Alfred for the detailed specs on the clips. I contacted a firm recommended to me called "Small Quantities" which specializes in metal reproductions such as fasteners, etc in relatively small numbers. There would be an engineering fee of $450.00, and then the clips would be $4.90 each for a quantity of 100 to 149, 4.50 for a quantity of 150 to 299. So if we did a quantity of 100 (50 sets for example) this would add $14.30 to each set, if we did higher quantities it would be a little less. I am assuming sets with the metal clips would work as replacements for non-clip pieces. So, a total for pieces with metal clip inserts should be around $40.00. This is a little more money, but probably well worth it for some, and yet there are others who will probably just want the one-piece clip. I suppose we could do some of both as well, that would just take a bit more planning.

66andBlue · « **Reply #59 on:** July 15, 2008, 13:06:35 »

Hi benzportland,
thanks for doing all the leg work here.
My view is to go with a solid piece without the metal clip. It is not only the fabrication of the metal part but also the design of the plastic. Looking from underneath it is not just a rectangular cavity but quite intricate, and matching both pieces will require additional work. Especially when they are made in different shops.
The clips in modern cars are all one piece plastic and they seem to be quite durable. You mentioned earlier "We would need to send a pair of these in for the moulds".
Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean but I believe that one clip is sufficient since there is no left or right version. And this is important, the clip must be symmetrical along the long axis, that is, fit both sides!
I am still in for one pair.

benzportland · « **Reply #60 on:** July 15, 2008, 15:22:22 »

Alfred - I wondered about the aspect of the metal clip fitting just right inside the part, and so far I have not been able to find a shop which does these simultaneously. And you're right it did not occur to me we would actually only need one mould for the plastic so the price should be a bit cheaper.

114015 · « **Reply #61 on:** July 21, 2008, 13:30:35 »

Hello friends,

I am in for two pairs; me preferring the solid type as well.
Nevertheless, both solutions, solid or hollow with metal clip, will be fine for me.

Thanks a lot for your input & help,

Achim

hill · « **Reply #62 on:** July 21, 2008, 13:35:59 »

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

Hello friends,

I am in for two pairs; me preferring the solid type as well.
Nevertheless, both solutions, solid or hollow with metal clip, will be fine for me.

Thanks a lot for your input & help,

Achim

I could use two pairs also. I remember going through two pairs on my 107 in ten years.

benzportland · « **Reply #63 on:** July 21, 2008, 22:53:29 »

At this point I am thinking of getting 100 pieces of the solid. Part of this process should include submitting samples to the designer; I could send one but as for color match more than one would be helpful. He will produce a few color samples, and I would like to be able to send them to some others here for their opinion as to quality, fit and finish if there are volunteers for that. Then I will sell them at actual cost plus shipping until they run out.

I am thinking that some with the hollow / metal clip variation might be happy with these, but if several still want the hollow / metal version, then I'd be more than willing to help with more legwork/contacts there.

Not to start a new topic but if this goes well I am thinking of having the same guy make some correct early vent levers which I understand have not been available for ages.

waqas · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:05:55 »

You can sign me up for 3 pairs, regardless of how they come out. I'd like to support your R&D effort... thanks!

jacovdw · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2008, 13:15:41 »

Well, even though I am on the other side of the pond and a little to the south, I would definately be interested in at least 2 pairs of the solid clips..

paulr · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2008, 14:01:11 »

I will have a set too.

jszeman1 · « **Reply #67 on:** July 22, 2008, 15:02:02 »

Count me in for a pair of white. I would prefer the ones with the clips for originality. My guess is to make the plastic part first in case there is any shrinkage from the casting. The manufacturer of the clips would then be able to make an exact fit.

benzportland · « **Reply #68 on:** July 27, 2008, 21:15:30 »

Just doing a brief survey of responses here it seems more people have the metal insert version, or maybe the numbers are close? I guess at this point I am thinking of going ahead with the solid style as it would require me to commit about 1/2 the funds at this point. I was guessing 50 pairs (100 pieces) but maybe 30 or 40 would be all we need for now. The guy will have the mould, so making more would likely be possible and easy. Once I sell those out (at cost, not trying to make a profit) I could go with the later metal insert version (and my better half would not get so much heartburn over the financial commitment

. Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

waqas · « **Reply #69 on:** July 28, 2008, 08:11:25 »

There appear to be three issues here:

Style:
I believe both the solid plastic and the metal insert types are correct. Further, the solid plastic version poses fewer complications during fabrication.

Colour:
I believe beige is more common, but some have reported white, grey, etc.

Amount:
benzportland-- I suggest that you start a new thread clearly stating your intention to fabricate these clips in order to gather a "sign-up list" from the wider membership.

Mark280SL · « **Reply #70 on:** July 29, 2008, 21:05:22 »

If there is still time to join in I'll take a pair to support the effort also.

benzportland · « **Reply #71 on:** July 29, 2008, 21:16:18 »

I will start a new post soon to sign up for clips. One thing I wanted to sort out first was color - I will check with the technician to see if he can produce these in more than one color without impacting cost much, if at all. It would be nice to have choices on color. I'll post here as soon as I hear from him.

114015 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 31, 2008, 11:59:57 »

Alfred showed on his pictures the correct color of these clips.

These are (somehow) greyish beige. I am confident this is the correct color. Clear grey or even white (like the reproductions) does not seem to be correct to me.
I have not heard or read that different color choices were possible at period. At least the parts list(s) don't tell so. And they usually do.

Whatever choice, I am in for two pairs.

Thanks a lot for your superb effort
& best

Achim

benzportland · « **Reply #73 on:** July 31, 2008, 21:14:49 »

I heard back from the tech and he said doing a few different colors would not be a problem as long as there were more than just a couple in each color. Based on Alfred's picture and other's agreement, it seems that the greyish-beige is the correct original color, but perhaps later when correct replacements were still available some other colors were used?

To sum up these will be solid - style clips, correct only for the 230sl and the 250 sl up to #002979.

As for color it seems the greyish-beige for sure, but possibly others. I thought I would post this and let others weigh in with their preference/experience on color, and then in a few days start the new post to confirm "orders." Thanks all

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