Author Topic: Carpet Replacement  (Read 2773 times)

LA280SL

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Carpet Replacement
« on: August 08, 2023, 00:19:35 »
Time to remove carpet and order a replacement kit.  I lifted up the rear deck and found dark red original carpet never seen by the sun.  What a difference from the faded and pink looking carpet getting pulled out.

I went to GAHH to see their replacement samples and both were way off (473 and MB-6).  By chance the MB-6 is even a lighter shade than the faded original.  There was a third sample that was really close to the original dark red, 486.  They said this was special order and if chosen, it could not be returned.

Anyone have recent experience with GAHH for carpet kits?

« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 03:35:03 by LA280SL »

Pawel66

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2023, 07:37:17 »
Pawel

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Rahul

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2023, 09:35:26 »
I don't think my rear wells are carpeted like that, anyone know if that was standard practice from the factory?

Thanks
1971 280SL auto #571 over parchment

bogeyman

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2023, 11:01:01 »
Looks like there was a third seat option that was replaced by the parcel shelves.
Rick Bogart
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1969 280SL Silver(180)/Green
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1972 350SL
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AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2023, 12:12:32 »
Is it possible to just buy and order the kinder seat carpet for both sides under the parcel shelves?  This would make the rear wells look much tidier and maybe cut out some road noise?
Dave Cleghorn
January 1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

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rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2023, 13:31:01 »
LA280SL,

You should be strongly suspect of the carpet in this footwell.  This was only done for the sideways "kinder seat" option.  Start with your data card and make sure your car was delivered with this option.  That would explain the carpet there.  But, that still doesn't mean it's factory original carpet.  Is it also installed on the other side?  If you believe all your original carpet is discolored, then maybe just go by data card color code and get samples from 3 or 5 or however many companies for what they produce for that color code.  Pick the one you like best.

Oh, and that one sample on the left looks like square weave for a 230SL.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
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1980 450SL
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LA280SL

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2023, 14:40:47 »
Rodd,

I think you nailed it.  The other side is not carpeted.  My bad and why I am on this forum!

My upholstery code is 242.  Best I could find for colors is 3000 for red leather and it says 3004 for carpet, but I cannot find any way to match 3004 to any codes on carpet kits available. Will keep looking. 

rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2023, 14:53:25 »
My upholstery code is 242.  Best I could find for colors is 3000 for red leather and it says 3004 for carpet, but I cannot find any way to match 3004 to any codes on carpet kits available.
Does your data card have the option code for the Kinder Seat?  Just curious.

Regarding your interior codes, yes, 3004 is your carpet color code.
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/UpholsteryCodes

It is up to the supplier to tell you what they offer to match your 3004 color code.  If they don't understand your color codes, maybe they aren't the right supplier (or maybe not the right person at that supplier?).

Here's a few places I found.  None use the Mercedes color code as their code, and I'm sure they don't have all the original MB colors available, but they all have a basic red.

https://www.germanautotops.com/product/mercedes-benz-w113-1963-1971-230sl-250sl-280sl-carpet-kit/

https://www.budsbenz.com/restoration/upholstery-samples#multiloop-carpet

https://gahh.com/interiors/carpets/164-01-11302-c106-carpet-kit-for-mercedes-1968-1971-roadster-rear-jumpseat-auto-with-ac-incl-seatbacks

https://cabrio.de/en/carpets/car-models-prices/mercedes-benz-2013-11-05/230-280sl-113/carpet-set-230-280-sl-113-detail

https://parts.theslshop.com/mercedes-benz-sl-w113-pagoda-cabin-carpet-set-schlingware-multi-loop/

Anyone have other carpet suppliers to recommend?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 16:48:26 by rwmastel »
Rodd

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rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2023, 18:43:05 »
What piece of carpet is this in the corner of your original picture?
Rodd

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LA280SL

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2023, 19:40:14 »
Rodd,
I could not find the kinder seat code on the data card. 

I have been working with GAHH in North Hollywood but will check out the links you provided later today when I have the time.   Thank you!

LA280SL

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2023, 19:42:03 »
What piece of carpet is this in the corner of your original picture?

That is the corner of the parcel shelf behind driver seat.  Probably looks darker than other carpet in place due to being located in my garage under lights.

rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2023, 20:08:32 »
Since there is no Kinder Seat option code, I can't imagine why this foot well was carpeted by someone.  Get a number of carpet samples and see which best suits your fancy.  GAHH has a good reputation, so maybe that sample on the right in your first post is not that far off from correct?  Can we see a pic of it against your "faded" original carpet?  Speaking of "correct", are you trying to achieve concourse level originality?  If so, then take your carpet samples with you to Pagoda Fest in Chicago and you will get great opinions on which to use!  You might even see a few red interiors that you can use for reference.
Rodd

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Pawel66

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2023, 21:17:43 »
LA280SL,

You should be strongly suspect of the carpet in this footwell.

I think rwmastel is right here. I would really try to study this forum, Technical Manual and other sources to determine correct 3004 color. There are also other points: how the backing looks like, are the patterns correct, etc. I think I understand the dilemma as the color on the piece from the well is so much different, but...

Look here, where the discussion is taking place amongst experts: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17227.msg118999#msg118999

Technical Manual: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Interior/Carpets

You may want to compare carpet pattern and backing - the one you pulled out of that well with what carpet you have on door entrance area, especially pieces covered by the floor carpet, carpets you have over the floor re-enforcements, seat backs. I would see the following arguments against originality of the darker carpet:

1. It is not red.
2. Pattern is, as much as I can see, different than on other carpets.
3. The area covered by the wooden boxes is larger than the well you took carpet from, on both sides. This area is not touched by the sun either.
4. Absence of factory option for additional seat suggests that someone did or tried to do something there in that area. For instance: place sort of cushion on the other wood box and made space for legs...

I would proceed as advised - ask suppliers about which one is closest to 3004 (GAHH, KHM), ask Chicago gathering participants (or Stuttgart for that matter) which may be closest to the real one and pick the better one based on these opinions and/or your taste.
Pawel

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zoegrlh

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2023, 00:27:05 »
There is no way you carpet faded that much. The kinder seat foot well could sure be original color, and the faded carpet could have been a replacement in a red, not in the.dark red. Check your data card for original color correctness.
Robert Hyatt
Williamsburg, VA.

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lreppond

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2023, 18:40:29 »
I enlarged your photos and here’s my theory:
The carpets under the parcel shelf look to be correct based on tufting pattern and trim color.  The faded carpets appear to be square weave to me.  Being made of wool it fades more quickly than nylon loop.  I believe your carpets were changed at some point to this material.  I further believe that your car was originally delivered with the kinder seat which is why the footwell is carpeted.

Fact is you’ll NEVER find an exact match to your dark red carpets. There’s only possibly two mills that produce loop and those that do usually have two colors mixed together for a two tone effect.  Find what works best in your situation.  Here’s some pix from my dilemma.  The solid color (same weave pattern as your dark red) and the two tone I had to go with. I couldn’t even find matching binding color and had to go a bit darker.  It all works and it’s lovely but is it a match to what was there originally? No. 
~Len

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576G red/251 Beige
4 speed manual
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rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2023, 20:00:22 »
I further believe that your car was originally delivered with the kinder seat which is why the footwell is carpeted.
....
Fact is you’ll NEVER find an exact match to your dark red carpets.

I could not find the kinder seat code on the data card. 
Len,

That's good sleuthing, I do agree that his installed carpet overall looks like square weave!  Not correct for a 280SL.  But, OP says he doesn't have the Kinder Seat option code on data card, so I don't think we can assume that the foot well carpet is "original", just more correct.  Do Kinder seat cars come with a cover for the foot well?  I don't know.  I guess if the square weave was installed by someone, then they also could have added a footwell cover.  Finally, his original carpet is "red 3004", not "dark red", but who knows what red 3004 really looked like 50 years ago?  It seems there was originally 4 red carpet options over the years.
Red 3004
Medium Red 6509
Light Red 3008
Rust Red 6508

I think if the OP wants originality, he should attend (or send his samples to) Pagoda Fest or maybe even the event in Germany.
If the OP is not concerned about originality, he should get the red carpet that he likes best.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2023, 20:09:57 by rwmastel »
Rodd

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rwmastel

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2023, 20:17:37 »
LA280SL,

565 is data card option code for Kinder Seat, in case you did not know.

Is your leather original?  It more closely matches the binding on the foot well carpet than the general overall carpet.  Normally, I think the binding matches the upholstery.

I'm starting to think you have a car with 565 Kinder Seat option and the rest of the carpet is incorrect square weave replacement and also Kinder Seat was removed when incorrect upholstery was installed.


Len,

You can see your solid color carpet sample has binding matching your upholstery.  And, LA280SL's footwell carpet has a similar weave/pattern to your solid color original carpet sample.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2023, 20:27:48 by rwmastel »
Rodd

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Pawel66

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2023, 09:15:25 »
LA280SL,

565 is data card option code for Kinder Seat, in case you did not know.

Is your leather original?  It more closely matches the binding on the foot well carpet than the general overall carpet.  Normally, I think the binding matches the upholstery.

I'm starting to think you have a car with 565 Kinder Seat option and the rest of the carpet is incorrect square weave replacement and also Kinder Seat was removed when incorrect upholstery was installed.



Now as you said that (about the rest of carpets being not original), that may be the case...

We have picture of 242 leather in the Technical Manual - it is dark, almost brown. Not sure if the picture is of new leather or old leather. Here is a new one, also brownish: https://www.hans-reinke-shop.de/product_info.php?info=p25_mb-akzentrot--3000-rot-.html

Yes, the bands usually matched the leather, I think. We know that carpet band is vinyl color 3004 - but what this color is exactly? Question mark.

Maybe I was wrong saying in the other post about the carpet in question "it is not red" - perhaps in a different light it would look more red.

What I think would help:

1. It would be interesting to see the shift gear gate collar on the carpet if it is an automatic car and the driver's footwell area.
2. Any markings on the carpet backing?
3. A picture of the carpet in question in better light?
4. Close up on seats perforated pieces.
5. Picture of an entire seat cushion and back rest - see the colors of perforated and non-perforated parts.
6. I do not know how the loop weave is ageing... does it start to look like a square weave?
7. Picture of data card with key code covered.

Finally: there were a lot of exceptions registered as for the carpet material installation, there might have been many more not registered in factory specs for upholstery. "100% of 280SLs had loop weave" - I think it is not the case, quite frankly. There were also special orders - probably reflected somewhere in the documents. Special wish field on data card?

But yes, maybe the overall carpet was just replaced and kinder seat legroom carpet kept or added later...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 09:22:32 by Pawel66 »
Pawel

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LA280SL

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2023, 20:54:13 »
I sure appreciate all the experience and suggestions here regarding this carpet. 

As this car is owned by a friend of the family whose husband passed away, I am going to confer with her on possible options going forward.  I don’t believe absolute originality is critical. 

In researching the file she provided with the car, it was originally delivered to her husband’s uncle in Honolulu. It had been repainted original Silver and the engine block is not original.  I was unable to see any work orders or invoices regarding new upholstery or carpet.  Her husband brought the car to L.A. in 1994. 


brettgregor

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2023, 00:45:12 »
Contact Heritage in Palm Springs:  amazing product.
Brett Gregor
Dana Point, CA
1968 280SL

LA280SL

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Re: Carpet Replacement
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2023, 15:21:20 »
Thanks Greg. 

As it turned out a member offered a Heritage red carpet kit he had purchased but not used, so I’m all set. The underlayment product from Bud’s arrived over the weekend.   Will probably be a few weeks before I’m ready to get it down.