Author Topic: Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment  (Read 7546 times)

badali

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Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« on: August 22, 2022, 22:43:07 »
My 1961 220Sb just had new bushings installed and the shop is having trouble getting it adjusted.  Is there a starting point and procedure if you start from scratch?  Any help will be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 20:46:43 by badali »
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

ja17

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2022, 00:38:54 »
Is it floor or column shift?
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2022, 01:22:32 »
Column shift
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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austinado16

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2022, 14:02:22 »
Since no one has responded, I'll offer a suggestion (with the caveat of:  I have no idea how to do this adjustment, and have never done it)

Can the adjustment be accomplished by placing the transmission into 1st or Reverse, and then setting the linkage up so that the column shifter is very "up and close" to the steering wheel, as if it were actually correctly positioned up there in that 1 o'clock position?  Then the mechanic could test shift and fine tune from there.  It might take 2 mechanics to work on the car for a few minutes: One to hold the shifter up in the close 1 o'clock position, and one to figure out what that translates to at the transmission, and then force that short little shifter into either 1st or Reverse, but I think once set up, it would all be pretty close AND make more sense as to what needs to be set/adjusted to a certain spot.

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2022, 15:09:29 »
Thanks,  I was thinking similar to that but I don't know the position of each gear.  There are 2 levers on the transmission.  One on top and one on the side.  The 2 links have to work together.  Reading in the big blue book was vague.   I'm going on Thursday to look at it.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

austinado16

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2022, 16:09:13 »
I've seen that section of the big blue book and thought, "Are you kidding me with that?"  lol   And that's why I love my floor shifter...if you know what I'm sayin'.

I'll bet if you put all the kinkage sort of back to where it had been built (shiny spots on metal, where things have been sitting for 50yrs?) you'll be close, and as you move the shifter into the 1 or R position, you'll probably be able to figure out how the 2 trans levers are moved in order to engage either of those shift points.....and then do your adjustments from there?

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2022, 23:00:47 »
I checked out the problem with the mechanic.  No success today.  He put the rods on the same length they were before the new bushings were installed.  With the car on the lift and in neutral the drive shaft will turn.  When trying to move the shift lever to any position it will not move into any gear.  If we remove the link ball on the rod moving the top lever I can move the shifter into R, 1 and 3.  All top motion.  2 and 4 will not go in even if moving the top lever by hand.  With both link balls off I have full range of motion of the column shift lever.  Also full range of motion on the top and side lever on the transmission.  Nothing should have changed enough with the new bushings to make no gear work.

Note: They rebuilt the entire front suspension to include all control arm bushings and king pins.  This should not have changed the geometry of the front end since we have not replaced motor mounts or sub frame mounts at this time.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

austinado16

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2022, 00:39:03 »
Hope you get it figured out soon.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 04:17:58 by Todd »

Benz Dr.

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2022, 04:14:18 »
If I remember correctly, any adjustments are done at the firewall right on the shifter box. You can also adjust the length of the rods.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2022, 19:31:11 by Benz Dr. »
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2022, 13:53:56 »
I'll keep researching for the exact procedure for starting from scratch.

Dan, The big blue book is kind of vague but it says to loosen bolt 5 on the link arm 6 and pull both arms forward to the end of travel then have a helper move the shifter in the direction of travel to get 4th gear. Then tighten bolt 5 and have helper shift all gears using the clutch.  This will preload the spring.  I'm not sure why the spring would need preloaded just because we put in new bushings and all are in the same location.  Moving lever 6 would definitely change the location of everything so we are hesitant to move it until we get clarification.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

Benz Dr.

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2022, 19:33:27 »
I'll keep researching for the exact procedure for starting from scratch.

Dan, The big blue book is kind of vague but it says to loosen bolt 5 on the link arm 6 and pull both arms forward to the end of travel then have a helper move the shifter in the direction of travel to get 4th gear. Then tighten bolt 5 and have helper shift all gears using the clutch.  This will preload the spring.  I'm not sure why the spring would need preloaded just because we put in new bushings and all are in the same location.  Moving lever 6 would definitely change the location of everything so we are hesitant to move it until we get clarification.

Follow those instructions. I've done that job before but it was 20 years ago.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
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1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2022, 20:33:41 »
Ok,  So if the rods are in the close to the same position as they were this will reset the variance from the new bushings and all will be ok???
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

Benz Dr.

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2022, 21:14:02 »
Ok,  So if the rods are in the close to the same position as they were this will reset the variance from the new bushings and all will be ok???

Not always. Sometimes minor adjustments are needed and if someone moved things to compensate for wear that could be your problem.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2022, 21:20:29 »
Thanks,  I will call the shop Monday.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2022, 18:01:04 »
I'm having no luck at figuring this out.  Does anyone have a early version 4 Speed on the column that could take a picture of the linkage?  I'm not sure they are on correctly.  I tried The procedure in the big blue book.  I can get the position of R, 1 and 3.  I can not get the lever to go down for 2 and 4.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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ja17

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2022, 18:20:29 »
Make sure that the round, spherical bushing at the base of the shift rod inside the car is good.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
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austinado16

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2022, 03:14:34 »
Diagrams I found online

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2022, 12:37:00 »
Todd,
I think the pictures are from an older version than mine.  The arms look different.  I also need to see the arms hooked up at the fire wall to the linkage.  A friend of mine has a 1961 220Sb and I am going to see his linkage in a week or so... we are both busy this week...  If you happen to see any more info let me know.  I talked to Joe yesterday and he gave me a few ideas to try so when I get time again I'll take another look.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2022, 18:02:39 »
I stopped at a friends house today and took a look at the shifter.  His car is the same year and model.  I see that the shifter is showing very little threads where the ball end fits on the rod.  Mine is way out showing a lot of threads.  I took pictures while we went through the gears.  I'll start from there when I get a chance to work on it again.

I also found an exact engine and transmission at a house local and bought the transmission this morning.  It took ten minutes to remove...  If my transmission is actually not working I can use this one or use it to figure out what is wrong with mine...
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

perry113

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2022, 10:46:37 »
I am not sure if this is much help.
I replaced the upper and lower shifter bushings on my 63 220seb automatic column shifter during the restoration process. I remember when taking the lower column apart that marked the position of the lower arm in relation to the spline. That was critical. Nothing else was changed. That may be your problem.
There was also an adjustment for the gear shift lever gauge.
Why would anyone change the lengths of the rods?? Factory set.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 10:51:08 by perry113 »
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2022, 19:19:39 »
Peter,
As far as I know this part was not taken off.  Just the shift rod ends and the link arms to replace the plastic bushings were removed.  I shortened the length yesterday to match my friend's car.  I still cannot get 2nd and 4th gear.  The lever is more springy to return to center like it used to than before I made these adjustments.

Maybe something actually broke and is causing the problem.

I'm getting a little discouraged since the car shifted before the bushings were changed.  I bought this transmission yesterday and am thinking of doing a good service and clean up and putting it in if I don't make any progress soon.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 19:24:27 by badali »
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

Desertpagoda

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2022, 22:46:38 »
its safe to say that if it shifted OK before the bushings, it is related to the bushings/linkage details. The trans has NOT suddenly failed and would very likely need the same fettling to work as this one does
kb

badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2022, 23:08:24 »
I would agree.  I just haven't figured what went wrong.  If anyone has another suggestion what to try next I would be grateful.  I wasn't there when they made the mistake...
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2022, 01:05:46 »
After some research with my friend's car and the extra transmission I have I found that the one in the car has a problem with 2nd and 4th gear.  When the top lever in my spare is in the rear position, I get reverse to the rear then 1st to the next position and 3rd forward on the side lever.  With the top lever forward, I get 2nd to the rear and 4th forward on the side lever.  With the links disconnected in the car I cannot get 2nd and 4th manipulating in the same way.  I am going to pull the one in the car.  If I had a lift I would have pulled it already.  Up on jack stands it will go.  I'll give another update as I go.  I have a new transmission mount and motor mounts so that everything will be lined up and new when I make the final adjustments.  I think I fully understand the big blue book for the adjustments now that I see where everything is supposed to be...
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2022, 20:40:58 »
Does this area get any grease or lubricant before putting the transmission in?  I am doing all the prep work before I take out the one in the car.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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ja17

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2022, 03:19:24 »
There is a groove between the two sliding cylindrical sleeves which should be full of grease. Remove the two spring clips, slide the throwout bearing and its mounting sleeve off. You will see the groove inside the sleeve. Clean it, grease it and re-install it on the transmission tube.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2022, 10:30:45 »
Thanks, this transmission seems to be in working order.  Hopefully the install will not give me too much difficulty...
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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Leester

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2022, 16:49:38 »
I put a little grease on the splines so it would slide on the shaft without any snags. Probably didn't need it but I was thinking ahead to when I would be laying on my back.   Lee
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2022, 00:09:40 »
I just pulled the transmission and immediately found the problem.  The top lever is flopping without engaging anything.  I pulled the cover and something is broken that engages the lever.  I'm done for the night and will investigate further.  I think I will use the spare transmission that I bought after everything is cleaned and ready to install.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2022, 23:19:30 »
I put the transmission I bought in the car and ran out of time so I have these clean and new parts to install yet.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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badali

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Re: 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2023, 14:58:13 »
The transmission is all back in.  I need to change the motor mounts then adjust the linkage.  All rubber part will be new so it should be setting where it needs to be for final adjustments.
 Hopefully all will work.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
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badali

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Re: FINISHED !!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2023, 20:45:29 »
Everything is back together and the linkage is on and working.  I couldn't take it for a ride since it is snowing but going through the gears seems to work correctly.  Thanks to all who answered my questions.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

bracurrie

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Re: Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment W11x
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2023, 15:29:02 »
Brad
I have a 1970 280 SE with manual column shift.  When working its wonderful.  What a luxury to be able to drive and shift without moving your right had very far from the steering wheel.
There are bushings in the steering column too.  Have you changed those?
Brad
1970 280 SE W108.018
M130.980 w/ US emissions
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badali

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Re: Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2023, 15:39:55 »
I didn't pull the lower linkage from the shifter at the fire wall.  All others are now replaced with the transmission and many other parts. The shifter moves easily.  If we get a nice day with no salt on the roads I'll give it a try.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

badali

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Re: Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2023, 20:09:08 »
I finally got to test drive the car yesterday.  It shifted better than it ever did before.  I still need to get the car aligned since the suspension rebuild.  The frontend squealed terribly.  I have to get the toe in adjustment closer before I go anything further than around the block.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2023, 21:21:23 by badali »
Brad

1961 220 Sb
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rwmastel

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Re: Finished!!!!! 1961 220Sb Column Shifter adjustment
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2023, 20:31:40 »
Congratulations!  Great perseverance, patience, and general "sticktoitivness".
Rodd

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