Kangol seat belt color

[dirkbalter]

Hallo,
I am having a set of Kangol seat belts for my car restored. The ones in the car were some aftermarket belts that I am replacing.
When purchased with the car, were the belts always black or were the belts matched to the interior color?
Thank you.

[Leester]

I'm no expert with the seatbelts but I bought new Kangols from the source in England and mine are black.  Lee

[Pinder]

Both my cars with brown interior are brown.

[dirkbalter]

Well, I am not sure anymore. I originally asked for a maroon or dark red color. The restorer called me and asked if I am sure. He said, he believes that the belts were always black.

[Jordan]

My blue interior had blue belts.

[lreppond]

They were offered in various colors.  Go the the tech manual.  Select color codes and scroll to the very bottom.  It will show an example of how different interiors had different seatbelt colors.  Mine are original and they are dark brown. 

[scoot]

My understanding is that Kangols were always charcoal black, and often faded to brown or a purple-ish color over many years.  I have had LOTS of Kangols restored but unfortunately the guy who webs them for me is not doing it anymore.  I have all of the parts.  LOTS of them.  I'm considering having Snakeoil (sp?) do a set for me, I have never used them before.

When I was more in the business/hobby of Kangol belts I had some done in tan, red, maybe blue.  But contrary to what previous posters have stated, I'm not aware of them ever being in a "color" originally.

[scoot]

My blue interior had blue belts.

I would like to see a photograph of that.

[Pawel66]

My understanding is that Kangols were always charcoal black, and often faded to brown or a purple-ish color over many years. 

I am not sure. Enclosed is the specs for late cars. I thought some time ago that 7034 was some indeed dark, but grey colour. But as you see 7034 dark grey across various upholstery colours, you start to think that perhaps this dark grey is what we think was black. I would appreciate someone commenting on this.

I would also not be surprised if the seat belts were various colours to become all black (or dark grey) towards the end of the manufacturing period.

[scoot]

I am not sure. Enclosed is the specs for late cars. I thought some time ago that 7034 was some indeed dark, but grey colour. But as you see 7034 dark grey across various upholstery colours, you start to think that perhaps this dark grey is what we think was black. I would appreciate someone commenting on this.

I would also not be surprised if the seat belts were various colours to become all black (or dark grey) towards the end of the manufacturing period.

I would consider "dark grey" and "charcoal black" to be close enough to be called the same color.    I have pillaged dozens of Kangols from cars at junkyards - they have always been the same color except for fading.  I'm the only one I know of that has had them reproduced in "colors".  Also, from the spec sheet it doesn't really specify Kangols.  Kangols were made in England and used on lots of cars, although Mercedes was the most common.  FWIW I have buckles for Kangols with Mercedes, Kangol, Fiat, Jaguar, BMC, and _maybe_ Lambo logos...   Always charcoal black/grey.

[dirkbalter]

Just picked up my windshield from the classic center and asked the same question. They told me that they (Kangol) were always black, when installed by MB.

[Pinder]

see picture attached. Looks dark brown to me.

[scoot]

see picture attached. Looks dark brown to me.

Looks like charcoal to me.  But I still believe that there is one color.  Your mileage may vary!   I want to see a pic from the guy with the blue ones...

[Pawel66]

As for the picture - mine looked the same, i think this may be discoloration with age and the sun.

Sometimes I have serious doubts as for the precision of information from. Both the US and the German CC.

Scoot - you can be correct, I think. It is like with the inside trunk paint colour. It is black, but it is grey.

I also would like to see the picture of the blue ones or true brown ones.

[Jordan]

Just had a quick look and my blue belts are Hickok, not Kangol.

[dirkbalter]

The reason I started asking was that the seat belts in my 108 appeared to be dark red, going along with the interior. However, they could also have been faded over the years.
I am leaning towards always been black now.

[scoot]

The reason I started asking was that the seat belts in my 108 appeared to be dark red, going along with the interior. However, they could also have been faded over the years.
I am leaning towards always been black now.

Yep.  That's what they look like when they fade to purple.

[ejboyd5]

Same church, different pew.  My 1972 280 SE 4.5 has been in the family since new and came with front and rear Kangol belts that are definitely black. I can't remember seeing Kangol belts in any other color but perhaps, with the application of sufficient coin of the realm, anything might have been possible.

[dirkbalter]

Thanks guys.
Black it is.

[scoot]

Here a set I had made in tan in 2009...

[lreppond]

I know exactly what Scott is taking about when he says all were black.  I’ve always thought mine were black as well until I read that they were “dunkelbraun” in an old DB color matrix for my interior.  Whether black or dark grey or dark brown, the differences are so subtle as to make it a moot point.  If you have a black steering wheel in your w108, black will look correct.  The pic of what I’ve attached is the dunkelbraun.

[Pinder]

Same color as mine. on two cars. Dark brown. one  of the cars was stored in a garage since 1985. I really doubt the sun got to it.

[Pawel66]

If you read in the documents that they were dunkelbraun, then most likely they were dunkelbraun. This means to me they were not always black.

The most common colour or the colour palette offered might have varied over time.
 
If other documents say dark grey - it might have been colour very close to black.

[scoot]

People are welcome to believe that they were dunkelbraun if they wish.  I believe they were charcoal and faded over the last 50 years.

[lreppond]

Here’s the interior  color matrix information from DM that I was referring. My interior is 141. At the very bottom is seatbelt colors.  According to this document they were dunkelbraun. 

[scoot]

Whatever.

[lreppond]

Here’s another interior matrix for the last models of 280SL’s…this is after the switch to a coarser grain MBTex. Mine is actuallly in this range of production.  From what I can see, seatbelt colors were related more to carpet color. 

[ejboyd5]

Don't disregard the "Sonderwunch" (special request) notation. Dark brown may have been possible, but was not standard issue.

[lreppond]

I believe the special request refers to the seatbelts themselves NOT their color.  Although seatbelts were mandatory and included with all cars sold in the USA at that time, they were offered as optional equipment in other countries. 

[Pawel66]

Here’s another interior matrix for the last models of 280SL’s…this is after the switch to a coarser grain MBTex. Mine is actuallly in this range of production.  From what I can see, seatbelt colors were related more to carpet color.

Thank you for sharing this document, it has been looked for for some years now! I posted earlier factory specs for numbers 113044 up to 12089. We have been looking for later specs - for example when we were discussing colours of the sill rubber pads ( I see dark blue here on your document!).

Now we have the specs for remainder of 113044 (including my car, actually, just with leather upholstery). It is a great find!

Do you happen to have the second part of it - with leather upholstery?

[lreppond]

Pawel,
I only saved those sheets that referred the colors of my interior.  I have the same information but for leather interiors and all the colors are the same.   As far as I’ve seen, the riffelgummi (door sill mats) for w113.044 were either light beige, dark grey or dark blue depending on the specific interior.  I cannot remember seeing them in brown, red or dark green but that’s not to say they didn't exist.  I ordered new mats from a company in Germany that has reproduced most available colors:  ok-gummiwerks.de. I got this website from a posting here by Wallace Wheeler.  The color match for my car is spot on including the heel mat.  They show many more colors on the website: including green,red, nougat, Brazil, grey beige, etc etc.  I am unclear if these were available on w113’s or not. 

[lreppond]

Here’s the colors ok-gummiwerk.de has available.  These are the heel pad design. The sill mats are simply ridged but available in the same colors. 

[Pawel66]

Thank you! If you come across the same document but for leather upholstery - I would love to get a copy.

As for the sill ribbed rubber pads - the document I enclosed says "dark blue" for my upholstery and so I did during the restoration. But I was not sure if this was correct as the document is for slightly earlier cars. I see "dark blue" in your document for MB Tex upholstery - I am thinking high chances are that leather upholstery also had then "dark blue". Based on the discussions we had, I was ready to give up and admit they were black (or dark grey again maybe). Now I think they were dark blue.

I also spent a lot of time to find light grey sunshades - light tan was all that was available at that time. Finally found the light grey ones...

[Pinder]

Really good information.  I can only add my two cents based on the only two examples I know about. I agree some belts fade but the two examples I have I asked everyone in my house hold and they all say it looks brown. Maybe after a certain time period they switch to charcoal or black.

[dirkbalter]

Just to follow up. Got my seat belts back from snake-oyl. It took a while but they are looking great.

[Charles 230SL]

My early 230 wasn't ordered with seat belts (no option 43) and I asked Bud's Benz to install them when they trimmed the interior (photo). Just curious, if the car had been ordered with seat belts, would the buckles have had Mercedes stickers vice "Kangol" stickers?

[dirkbalter]

Originally, my car wasn’t delivered with belts with either. Someone installed them at a later date. The belts were in bad shape and the buckles didn’t have stickers any more. I don’t know if the stickers should have the Kangul logo but I like the star in it.

[Charles 230SL]

Dirk, those belts look great. I think the MB star looks better too..

[DaveB]

My early 230 wasn't ordered with seat belts (no option 43) and I asked Bud's Benz to install them when they trimmed the interior (photo). Just curious, if the car had been ordered with seat belts, would the buckles have had Mercedes stickers vice "Kangol" stickers?

US-delivered 230s typically came with dealer-installed lap belts, branded 'Hickok, American Safety Equip. Corp.' They have a plain chrome buckle (no Mercedes star) and a coarse-woven material in several colors. They look great but of course wouldn't be as safe as a modern three-point system. The attached photos are from a current ebay auction.

[Charles 230SL]

US-delivered 230s typically came with dealer-installed lap belts, branded 'Hickok, American Safety Equip. Corp.' They have a plain chrome buckle (no Mercedes star) and a coarse-woven material in several colors. They look great but of course wouldn't be as safe as a modern three-point system. The attached photos are from a current ebay auction.

thanks Dave, I appreciate the insight. My car was built in Apr 1964, so if it had been ordered with seatbelts, they would have been Hickoks installed by the dealer (thanks for clarifying this for me). respectfully,, Charles

[neelyrc]

My car was delivered at the factory with black Kangol belts installed and they are still black, not faded to a different color.  These have no MB markings on them.  Pretty generic in appearance.  My car is dark olive in color.  Could be that there were different colors for different body color or interior selected.

[dirkbalter]

Ralph,
out of curiosity, what does the sticker on the front of the buckle look like on yours?

[neelyrc]

Dirk, I am in Italy for a few months and away from my car so can’t show you right now.  I searched through the pictures on my computer but do not seem to have one with me showing the front of the buckle.  Certainly not a star.  My rusty memory says the same as shown by Pinder in Reply 11 of this thread. 

I’ll check in November!!!

[Jonny B]

Dirk, if it helps at all, my 280 SL (Sept 69 build, 1970 model) has the magnet as Ralph refers to in Pinder's post. The set in my 250 SL, has the star as your photo shows.

[wwheeler]

I had my '68 W111 three point belts done at Ssnake-oyl (yes there are two ss). They look amazing and are just the same type as dirkbalter's. 

[dirkbalter]

I had my '68 W111 three point belts done at Ssnake-oyl (yes there are two ss). They look amazing and are just the same type as dirkbalter's.

I agree. A lot of attention to detail. They actually recreated the manufacturer tag, re-chrome…..

[neelyrc]

They look great, Dirk!

[ejboyd5]

Whatever.

It may not matter to you, but in the future there will be some to who this discussion will prove valuable as it provides "real time" authority from what will become "back in the day." 

[dirkbalter]

Not that it matters, but I just pulled out the original belts from the rear on my 70/108.
Star stickers. Lol.

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

Charles230Sl notes in his post about not ordering seat belts as is noted in box 43 on the Data ard.  I have never seen any documentation referring to Box 43. (including the Tech Manual)  Can anyone point me in the right direction with explanation of Box 43

JB

[Charles 230SL]

Charles230Sl notes in his post about not ordering seat belts as is noted in box 43 on the Data ard.  I have never seen any documentation referring to Box 43. (including the Tech Manual)  Can anyone point me in the right direction with explanation of Box 43. JB

hello JB, I saw the explanation for Box 43 here: www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes. 

Option 431 and 434:
431   Sicherheitsgurte vorn   Safety belts, front
434   Sicherheitsgurte vorn, USA   Safety belts, front, US version