Author Topic: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)  (Read 1086 times)

Cole

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280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« on: July 25, 2020, 01:01:25 »
Hi

    I'm selling a 280SL motor that came off a '68 pagoda with a manual trans, though it could also be used in a 280SL with an automatic. The cylinder head that we installed on the car last year had been rebuilt about six years ago by a very knowledgeable technician and was working fine. The main issue was that one of the cylinders in particular had low compression so the motor was replaced with another one that was available.
    This motor or part of it will need a rebuild and the cylinder head should be checked newly as well. If it were mine, I'd have the whole short block rebuilt and the cylinder head serviced as needed.     
    The motor is priced at $7.5k.
    There's an excellent shop locally here in Pasadena, CA named Marvin Automotive that specializes in classic Mercedes, particularly the pagodas. They do it all --mechanical, paint, interior and full or partial restorations. I'd have them take care of this motor.
    Attached are pictures of my motor and one of the motors that they restored, which is the way yours would look if they did it for you.

Thanks.
Cole
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 06:51:52 by Cole »
Cole
'69 280SL, 40G black/burgundy
'63 230SL, #133, 717G white/blue

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 13:32:16 »
I may be wrong here, but all my work on my cylinder head lately, would indicate that the head is wrong for that engine block. The engine serial number is BEFORE the change to the oval combustion chamber/head gasket and the head is AFTER. Only way to really confirm this is with cylinder head casting number.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Benz Dr.

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 16:19:10 »
Ball studs are missing. At least the intake ones are.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

Cole

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2020, 21:35:26 »
Hi Mike,

What you said about the cylinder head being wrong is incorrect and a bit misleading, but I appreciate your trying to help. The cylinder head and motor were looked at by Mike at Metric Engines here in Los Angeles who are very well known and have a lot of expertise in rebuilding pagoda motors. He also sold me the correct head gasket for it. The cylinder head is compatible with the block and worked fine.
As I said, the main thing is the block needs to be partially or fully rebuilt and possibly a service of the head done. It would then be an excellent running motor ready to go.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 23:31:58 by Cole »
Cole
'69 280SL, 40G black/burgundy
'63 230SL, #133, 717G white/blue

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2020, 13:00:48 »
Cole: As I said, I may be wrong, but one thing is for sure: The engine block serial number indicates an engine BEFORE the change.
The head ID 280SE/A, according to the Technical Manual would indicate a head AFTER the change. The only way to verify is with the head casting number.
I have met a lot of people who claim to be experts in one thing or another, especially when it comes to Vintage vehicles. And I am always wary of those who are in it for commercial reasons.
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SEB

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2020, 17:09:09 »
Gentlemen’s
Maybe is the wrong place but I am a little puzzled.

The 60’s were not easy for Mercedes and his engines regarding the performance and the durability of the engines, at least this is my opinion. Based also on discussion with Paul Braque.

But what I do not understand is, why the American are using some times the expression long block or short block. It was only one M130 engine in two version early and late? So what is the difference in the describing long block or short?

Many thanks in advance
Sebastian

Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 17:45:15 »
Sebastian: "Short Block" commonly describes the engine block without cylinder head whereas "Long Block" includes the head. I agree, it seems a little confusing as "we Germans" usually refer to the "Short Block" as the "Block" only. Maybe this terminology goes all the way back to the times when there were "Flat Heads" and there was not much going on in the head itself.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Cole

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 09:07:54 »
Mike,

Again, I do understand what you're saying, but this head and block are compatible and they performed fine. The owner of Metric Engines here in LA is a for-real expert in this and you can call him if you want.
Cole
'69 280SL, 40G black/burgundy
'63 230SL, #133, 717G white/blue

SEB

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 09:45:24 »
Mike!
Many thanks for this explanation. But I read many times this description regarding some American cars like Corvette etc. The Big block and small block and I was thinking, that it is related with the volume of the engine.

Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 14:08:56 »
Sebastian: Big Block/Small Block are describing different terms than Long Block/Short Block. Big/Small Block indeed refers to engine displacement. The historic Chevy Corvette "Small Block" ended at 350 cubic inch (5.7L) The "Big Blocks" were 427/454 cu in (7.0-7.4L). However, later that difference almost disappeared as there were Small Blocks with 400 cu in (6.6L) and we now have 6.0L Small Blocks in Corvettes.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2020, 14:09:50 »
Cole: Why don't you end that argument by posting the casting number of the head?
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perry113

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2020, 17:03:30 »
Hi

    I'm selling a 280SL motor that came off a '68 pagoda with a manual trans, though it could also be used in a 280SL with an automatic. The cylinder head that we installed on the car last year had been rebuilt about six years ago by a very knowledgeable technician and was working fine. The main issue was that one of the cylinders in particular had low compression so the motor was replaced with another one that was available.
    This motor or part of it will need a rebuild and the cylinder head should be checked newly as well. If it were mine, I'd have the whole short block rebuilt and the cylinder head serviced as needed.     
    The motor is priced at $7.5k.
    There's an excellent shop locally here in Pasadena, CA named Marvin Automotive that specializes in classic Mercedes, particularly the pagodas. They do it all --mechanical, paint, interior and full or partial restorations. I'd have them take care of this motor.
    Attached are pictures of my motor and one of the motors that they restored, which is the way yours would look if they did it for you.

Thanks.
Cole
Why would anyone buy a motor like this for $7500 when you can send your original motor to Metric Motors for a professional rebuild for $9150.00?? see:
https://mercedesengines.net/280sl-se/

Extremely ambitious asking price.
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

doitwright

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2020, 18:41:59 »
Why would anyone buy a motor like this for $7500 when you can send your original motor to Metric Motors for a professional rebuild for $9150.00?? see:
https://mercedesengines.net/280sl-se/

Extremely ambitious asking price.

There must be places where the value of cast iron is approaching the value of gold.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

Cees Klumper

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 02:43:09 »
I bought 13 of these engines, most of them complete with FI pump, manifolds, starter, alternator, ignition etc etc and most of them running, for about $500 each. Of course, that was 20 years ago.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic white
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3 Sport Rosso Corsa
1986 Nissan 300 ZX 5-speed brown metallic
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

Cole

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 22:24:56 »
Perry, if you have a decent 113 motor, it's worth a good amount as is. And of course you have the option of giving it away if you want.
Cole
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'63 230SL, #133, 717G white/blue

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2020, 13:04:10 »
Let's not forget that M130 is not always for W113. I can currently buy two M130s, but they are not 983s. I am pondering if they are worth the money. A decent m130-983 cannot be had for $500.-.
Even 20 years ago, that was a find. And I remember FI pumps for a 280SL crossed the 1k mark longer than 20 years ago.
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Desertpagoda

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2020, 00:38:48 »
injection pumps are 113 specific?
kb

Benz Dr.

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2020, 05:53:42 »
injection pumps are 113 specific?

The 230SL pump is.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2020, 11:56:58 »
I always thought the R25 pump on my 280SL was unique for that model.
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Cees Klumper

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2020, 20:47:12 »
Not sure about differences throughout the ranges (engines and pumps) but my understanding has always been, with respect to the 280 variants at least, that the sedan and SL engines and pumps were mostly almost identical, save some details that by now, with all the variables in how these engines run and are tuned, will likely not be noticeable. It would be 'all between the ears'. I believe there are some differences in camshafts (depending on euro or US version) and maybe compression ratios or what have you, but, again, I suspect a properly running 'sedan engine' with 'sedan pump' can run a lot stronger in your car than a tired 'correct' SL engine with a 'correct' tired or misadjusted pump. And they can look identical and for the most part are identical. If someone wants, they can always punch in the 'correct' engine number and make a sedan engine really indistinguishable from an SL one. Or vice versa.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic white
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3 Sport Rosso Corsa
1986 Nissan 300 ZX 5-speed brown metallic
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2020, 13:26:57 »
  And they can look identical and for the most part are identical. If someone wants, they can always punch in the 'correct' engine number and make a sedan engine really indistinguishable from an SL one. Or vice versa.

The cylinder head in my car says 280SEL/SL on it.... ;D 8)
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Desertpagoda

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2020, 23:28:55 »
yes, 230 pumps are obviously/outwardly different. 280s? 1971 TDM
kb

SEB

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2020, 08:20:14 »
Gentlemen’s
Maybe I use this opportunity and ask also by this occasion about the logic behind the different castings on the cylinder head’s? So we had two generations of the M130 early and late and two outputs with 160 PS and 170 PS. So for me should be 2 or 4 castings.

But I have seen at least following castings 280 SE, 280 SE/A, 280 SE/SL and now even 280 SEL/SL. Can somebody explain what was the reason?  And what are the original cylinder heads for 280 SL Pagoda?
Many thanks in advance
Sebastian
Sebastian
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MikeSimon

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 16:44:03 »
Sebastian: There is a spreadsheet in the Technical Manual that was put together by - I think - Joe Alexander a while ago. It shows all uses of cylinder heads and their ID and part-number. It seems like, though, it is not complete. The different heads MB used are due to the effort to make parts common between models. Other than the compression ratio, these heads have no effect on the horsepower output. My head shows a compression ratio of 9.0, another weird difference, although the original German title states 170 PS at 5750 rpm.
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SEB

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Re: 280SL Motor For Sale (Long Block)
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2020, 16:34:18 »
Thank you! I do not discoverd it during my searches. But still in this table is not included the casting 280 SEL/SL- what is curios for me, due to the fact that the SEL was the description for longer wheel base and not related to the engine.
Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),