Author Topic: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal  (Read 24993 times)

dpreston Virginia

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Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« on: January 06, 2014, 13:38:21 »
Santa was good to me this year. I received a pair of the large driving / fog lights for my 280 se cabriolet.
These lights are like a piece of jewelry. They came from the classic center.
Can anyone help me with where the lights should go. Some measurements and photos would be very helpful.
Thanks,
David
190SL 1960 Sold
280SL 1969
280SE 1969 cabriolet
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hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 21:45:46 »
David,

These driving lights are correct for a low-grille US version 280 SE Cabriolet, the high-grille version had the bullet style driving lights.
I suspect that to find correct measurements for mounting these lights on a HG car will be difficult.
If your car is a European version, suggested by the amber lenses in the headlights neither these or the bullet style lights would be correct on the car.

Hans
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 15:02:50 by hkollan »
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 02:09:30 »
Hans
Thanks for your comments. My 280se is an European version. I was pretty sure this car had the lights because the dash had a light switch for the fog lights. The switch looks factory. Lights up when you pull out when headlights are on. The switch has a green light when on. There is a few loose wires near the front grill as well.
David
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 02:16:17 by DPreston »
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wwheeler

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 04:56:57 »
David,

I believe the driving/fog lights are bigger than the turn signal fixtures and mount differently as well. See attached Euro car pictures. A white US car is attached which shows the turn signal mounting position. They do seem to be different.

Do you have any mounting provisions between the grille and the headlight tower? Does the wire length suggest it could be for the driving/fog lights? Unless your front fenders were replaced, seems like you should have a hole or two for these. Maybe if the car has been painted, the holes were covered up? I just noticed that your bumpers have the rubber strip. I believe this is just for the low grille cars.

I hope this helps,

Wallace    
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

ejboyd5

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 12:45:30 »
Are you perhaps confusing the function of that switch?  Could it be to activate the rear window heating instead of some front end lighting?

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 15:28:09 »
The switch has to be for lights as it only turns on when the head light switch is turned on.
David
190SL 1960 Sold
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280SE 1969 cabriolet
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dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 16:52:02 »
Wallace,
Thanks for your reply. I don't see any holes that were covered up. Very smooth on the back of the area I would assume the lights would go. There is a single wire on each side of the front of the car that is tapped up that could easily reach the fog lights if installed. I wouldn't be surprised that I have a miss matched bumper. The car is a nice driver but has had a decent amount of new sheet metal installed before I purchased Tux. Was originally a grey car.
So the front panels may be new.
The quest to decide if I use these lights goes on. If I could get some photos of a car with these lights installed from the engine compartment side I could better decide if they were ever there.
Thanks for your help.
David

David,

I believe the driving/fog lights are bigger than the turn signal fixtures and mount differently as well. See attached Euro car pictures. A white US car is attached which shows the turn signal mounting position. They do seem to be different.

Do you have any mounting provisions between the grille and the headlight tower? Does the wire length suggest it could be for the driving/fog lights? Unless your front fenders were replaced, seems like you should have a hole or two for these. Maybe if the car has been painted, the holes were covered up? I just noticed that your bumpers have the rubber strip. I believe this is just for the low grille cars.

I hope this helps,

Wallace    
190SL 1960 Sold
280SL 1969
280SE 1969 cabriolet
Vette 67
Porsche 912 67

hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 18:35:14 »
David,

The pull switch with the green dot is for the rear foglight. I have the same on my '69 High grille  280 SE convertible. That car has the same Euro headlights as your car as well as the H1 foglights from BOSCH(or Hella) and the rear foglight(Hella) mounted on the left bumper overrider. See attachment.

Hans



Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 19:40:06 »
Hans,
Beautiful car. Love the color combination. I have never seen a rear fog light. I will have to chase the wires from the green dot switch to see where they go and if I can find any signs of a rear fog light.
Does your rear fog light attach to the bumper or to the body?
Did the rear fog light come with all euorpean cars or was it a factory option?
Thanks so much for your help,
David


David,

The pull switch with the green dot is for the rear foglight. I have the same on my '69 High grille  280 SE convertible. That car has the same Euro headlights as your car as well as the H1 foglights from BOSCH(or Hella) and the rear foglight(Hella) mounted on the left bumper overrider. See attachment.

Hans




190SL 1960 Sold
280SL 1969
280SE 1969 cabriolet
Vette 67
Porsche 912 67

hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2014, 22:37:54 »
David,

The rear foglight is attached to the bumper by a bracket that goes between the overrider and lower bumper half
replacing one of the spacers there. The rear fog light was optional.

Here is one for sale on German eBay, that looks correct, also pictured is the mounting bracket.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-orig-Nebelschlusleuchte-W108-W109-W110-W111-Coupe-Cabrio-/121250105505?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1c3b11c8a1

Hans
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 03:13:39 »
Hans,
Took a look at my rear bumper and there is a hole for the fog light like you have on your car.  I haven't found the wiring connection but, I will look for it when I have a little more time.
Thanks again,
David

David,

The rear foglight is attached to the bumper by a bracket that goes between the overrider and lower bumper half
replacing one of the spacers there. The rear fog light was optional.

Here is one for sale on German eBay, that looks correct, also pictured is the mounting bracket.



Hans
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 16:33:55 by DPreston »
190SL 1960 Sold
280SL 1969
280SE 1969 cabriolet
Vette 67
Porsche 912 67

wwheeler

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 03:29:03 »
Way to go Hans! I have seen a rear light (probably yours) but would have never thought about that. I would assume the wire for that light would come out of the hole on the lower left side that is also used for the Euro license plate light.

So the question is, what are the loose front wires for? The horns? Do the wires appear to be original?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

scoot

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 01:02:37 »
I received a pair of the large driving / fog lights for my 280 se cabriolet.
Am I the only one here who thinks that those are turn signals from a W108 / W109?  For cars that didn't have the bullet-style turn signals?
Scott Allen
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Altadena, California

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 03:50:39 »
The US low grille W111 cars also had the round turn signal fixture. I think the fixtures David purchased are indeed these turn signal fixtures for the later US cars. The euro cars didn't have them. And the fog/driving light fixtures are bigger and mount differently.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

ejboyd5

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 12:23:23 »
Am I the only one here who thinks that those are turn signals from a W108 / W109?  For cars that didn't have the bullet-style turn signals?
I agree - they sure look like the 108 clearance light/turn signal/overnight parking light combination units including their mounting hardware.  It would be helpful to have an interior picture showing the lamp placement to make a positive identification.

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 13:31:11 »
Here are the same lights that I have from the Classic Center. Were these lights ever installed on an european high grill 111?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 14:02:55 by DPreston »
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hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 15:33:28 »
Quote
Here are the same lights that I have from the Classic Center. Were these lights ever installed on an european high grill 111?

Dave,

No, never on a w111 euro car. They are for late US version W108/W109/W111 cars.  The car shown in your picture is a poor example for what was correct for these cars, as the car has euro headlights, no US sidemarkers and the US turn signal. Wheel arch chrome also incorrect on a 280.
The blue 3.5 coupe in the attached picture shows an original car I owned with the correct  US lights in place

Hans


« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 15:38:57 by hkollan »
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 15:40:42 »
I messed up the previous post, Here is the picture.
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

wwheeler

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 21:54:41 »
Do we know if the mounting holes for the bullet lights (high grille) were the same for the round lights (low grille)?

Looking at pictures, it would appear so. The spacing from the headlight door is the same with either grille style. Only the spacing between the grilles change. The high grille (narrower) has more space than the low grille (wider).
Wallace
Texas
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'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

scoot

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2014, 18:00:02 »
So are we in agreement that the lights shown in the original post are turn signals, not fog lights?
To me, fog lights and driving lights have glass lenses, and I'm betting that the lights purchased have plastic lenses.  While attractive, I think that they are the lights that correspond to the bullet turn signals on other 108 (and 111) cars.
Scott Allen
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Altadena, California

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2014, 20:47:05 »
I would agree that they are the turn signals.
Wallace
Texas
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'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 01:34:15 »
I agree they are turn signal / driving lights not fog lights. Thanks for all the help on the forum. I am leaning on sending them back and getting the rear fog light at some point.

I haven't been able to find the wire connection to the rear fog light in the trunk. If any one has one a photo of the wording connection would be appreciated.

David

So are we in agreement that the lights shown in the original post are turn signals, not fog lights?
To me, fog lights and driving lights have glass lenses, and I'm betting that the lights purchased have plastic lenses.  While attractive, I think that they are the lights that correspond to the bullet turn signals on other 108 (and 111) cars.
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scoot

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 21:10:13 »
I agree they are turn signal / driving lights not fog lights. Thanks for all the help on the forum. I am leaning on sending them back and getting the rear fog light at some point.

I haven't been able to find the wire connection to the rear fog light in the trunk. If any one has one a photo of the wording connection would be appreciated.
I would send them back.    And I think the idea of a rear fog light is really cool.   While I don't know, I would speculate that the wiring for rear fog light comes from the left tail light housing...
Scott Allen
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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 21:45:02 »
108/111

Hello David, Scott,

Quote
...   While I don't know, I would speculate that the wiring for rear fog light comes from the left tail light housing...

No it does not.  ;)
Where should the (specific) current for the rear fog light come from? There is no extra line in the rear wiring harness for it.

You need an extra fused power wire from the switch/under dash area for the rear fog light.
For the early taillights for sure but I am pretty confident for the late ones as well.

Achim
(earlytaillightcollector)
Achim
(Germany)

wwheeler

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2014, 05:08:28 »
I would think the wire for the rear fog light would come out of the rear trunk panel and use the same grommet as the Euro license plate light wire. It is to the left and just behind the bumper. The US versions just have a hole plug there. Correct?

David, Can you determine if the wires in front receive voltage from the switch on the dash? Seems easy enough. Just use a voltage tester on the wire(s) and flip the switch on the dash. If there is just one wire, that one should be the hot and you would use a body ground to check for voltage.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2014, 16:47:36 »
The loose wires under the hood do not have voltage when the green switch is turned on.......

David, Can you determine if the wires in front receive voltage from the switch on the dash? Seems easy enough. Just use a voltage tester on the wire(s) and flip the switch on the dash. If there is just one wire, that one should be the hot and you would use a body ground to check for voltage.
[/quote]
190SL 1960 Sold
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dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2014, 22:51:19 »
Found the rear European fog light that is original to my 280SE on Ebay. Took it all apart cleaned polished and refinished the metal bracket.
Found the wire from the switch under the seat and ran to the new fog light.
Lots pretty cool.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 23:12:04 by DPreston »
190SL 1960 Sold
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280SE 1969 cabriolet
Vette 67
Porsche 912 67

dpreston Virginia

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2014, 22:54:16 »
Final photo with the fog light switched on.
Nice and bright.

I ended up with an extra rear fog light if anyone is interested. Just PM me.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 23:12:32 by DPreston »
190SL 1960 Sold
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Porsche 912 67

hkollan

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2014, 10:56:55 »
Well done, looks good.

Hans
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2014, 00:05:41 »
I run the Euro rear fog light as a 3rd brake light on all of mine, Mercedes, VW and Porsche. Looks cool and is VERY functional. Just tie in to the brake filament. KB
kb

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Re: Driving / Fog lights 280se 1970 instal
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2014, 04:44:43 »
Looks great and what determination! Very satisfying for you I am sure.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6