Author Topic: Wobbly window  (Read 7252 times)

rutger kohler

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Wobbly window
« on: November 19, 2012, 03:47:15 »
I went for long trip several weekends ago and decided to open the 280SL after doing quite as lot to it over the past year or so.  The car went really well however at quite a high speed my wife suddenly noticed that the passenger door window  had popped out at the top of the  rubber guides.  i stopped and it went back in quite easliy and stayed there at 60mph.  I had noticed that the window is quite wobbly when the door  is open and the window right up and had put this down to wear in the window door guides.  In older cars that i have repaired the guides are usually felt U shaped sections with a metal backing.  These can be easliy prised out and replaced with a standard size that auto trimmers sell by the metre (or foot).  Is this the case with the W113 or do you have to replace these with an oem part?
1969 280 SL Manual gear shift
1972 280SE 3.5 auto

drmb

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 05:21:07 »
Hello Rutger,The aluminium guides have probably come unstuck from the door glasses,you will need to remove the door cards and check.
If so remove the door glasses and bond them back on.Urethane is a good bonding agent.
Mercedes Restorer.
1969 280sl 050 whte Blue interior
1996 E320 Cabrio
1963 220se 111-023 cabrio, red,black interior.
1967 Morris Cooper
Lloydmarx@xtra.co.nz

rutger kohler

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 09:48:12 »
Hi, thanks for that, will check.  I should have also said that apart from the wobble the window opens and shuts perfectly too.
1969 280 SL Manual gear shift
1972 280SE 3.5 auto

Garry

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 11:20:03 »
Rutger,

As drmb said you have most probably lost the window guides from the bottom corners of the glass, they are items 3 and 4 in the following SLS site

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/index.php/cat/c3_Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagoda--R113-W113-.html/XTCsid/2g8iq5hlvpdpi4a9gd5te950u0#cat_91

The glass still will go up and down with out them, however when the glass it at the top it is able to wobble back and forth if they are missing.

Hopefully they will be in the bottom of the door after you take your door cards off.  They are not cheap to replace.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

mdsalemi

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 12:37:51 »
Rutger,

To your first post: what you are talking about is "old fashioned" u-channel window felt/guide.  Some years ago, an enterprising MB reseller decided that the whole OEM window guide concept, where instead of the glass sliding in this felt-lined u-channel, they used metal glued to the glass and sliding in a greased steel u-channel, was problematic.  They started selling the old u-channel felt guide.

The use of the felt guide involved gluing it to the inside of (once greased but now cleaned) the steel u-channel, and eliminating the metal guides that were once glued to the glass and ran up and down the steel channel.  I bought into the concept once, and tried it on my driver's door.

Big mistake, IMHO, as the glass wobbled when at the top.  The reason for this was quite simple: the felt channel offered very little support of the glass on one side, perhaps 2-3" or so.  That was not enough support when the window was up.  I could flex the window +/- 2".  I bought window guide repair kits, cleaned everything up, and made it normal again.

The real problem is that adhesives 40 years ago were not as good as today--by redoing the OEM window guides with modern adhesives they'll work better.

The reason why I took the whole door apart in the first place was a rattle when the window was down.  Most suggested that the guide had fallen off and was rattlling around the bottom of the door.  In my case, what happened was the bottom of one of the arms that move the glass was contacting the bottom of the door when in the full down position because of a missing stop.  Once a stop was added the problem went away.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

rutger kohler

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 21:15:39 »
Thanks again guys, Dr mb & Gary, can you both recommend actual brand of adhesive available in NZ/Aussie plse?

cheers
Rutger K
1969 280 SL Manual gear shift
1972 280SE 3.5 auto

Garry

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 21:23:41 »
Rutger,

I have tried several, with mixed success and am about to re attach mine again so am in a bit of the same boat.

I have uses a two part epoxy, not the 5 minute one but the full strength and also an epoxy putty.  Both held the guide on but I think the two pack probably worked best if have the window out to use it. but the epoxy putty is easier to use with the window in place.

Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

mdsalemi

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 22:35:32 »
Rutger, I can't tell you what is available in Aus/NZ, but the KIND of adhesive you probably want is either silicone or urethane.  Silicone adheres extremely well to glass and to metal, and that's what I used.  3M is the leading brand of industrial adhesive here in the USA.  Local auto parts stores here sell Loctite brands too.  Shouldn't be too hard to find an adhesive distributor down under.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

drmb

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 05:41:19 »
Product we use is Sika brand Sikaflex 221 adhesive sealant,works well need window out to clean prep and do the job.
Mercedes Restorer.
1969 280sl 050 whte Blue interior
1996 E320 Cabrio
1963 220se 111-023 cabrio, red,black interior.
1967 Morris Cooper
Lloydmarx@xtra.co.nz

mdsalemi

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 12:22:17 »
Product we use is Sika brand Sikaflex 221...

which is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant.  Warning: use gloves.  If you get it on your skin, your skin turns sort of black, looks like your hands are perpetually dirty, and takes some days to wear off.  >:(
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 18:03:17 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

rutger kohler

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Re: Wobbly window
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 01:54:30 »
Tjhanks guys for the brand and the warning to use gloves.  Away from my car for several weeks but will let you know how I get on.
1969 280 SL Manual gear shift
1972 280SE 3.5 auto