Author Topic: What did you learn at PUB 2009?  (Read 13328 times)

rwmastel

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What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« on: July 27, 2009, 12:37:23 »
PUB 2009 was another smashing success, with great presentations by members and sponsors, and lots of knowledge exchanged throughout the weekend.  So, since we've applied the nickname Pagoda University, Blacklick to the event, and our professor (Joe Alexander) and our President (Peter van Es) provided graduation certificates, I thought it would be appropriate for us all to share a particular item or two that we learned while there.

My example starts with me always trying to decide what color seat belt webbing I would want for when I finally install seat belts.  My 230SL of Italian origin has never has seat belts, and I was looking at seat belts installed with parchment, cognac, and other light interiors at this and previous PUBs wondering if I should try to match my unusual 219 leather or just use black.  This was decided for me on Sunday!

During his detailed presentation on M-B (and DIN and N) part numbers, David Gallon, one of 7 or 8 Californians in attendance, mentioned that he had with him some microfiche with various information on it.  It just so happens that Joe has a microfiche reader, so on Sunday I sat with David, and Alfred Esser as a German-English translator, and we went through the details of my unusual 219 interior color code.  Some things I already knew, like the name for 219 is Natural, and the color code for that leather is 1098, and the brown carpets codes and so forth.  But, on this microfiche it had in detail what each part of the car should be given a particular color code.  This includes specifying the under dash trim panels, trunk panels, hard top head liner, sun visors, and finally seat belts!!!  I found that I should have Grey Beige seat belts.  It also showed the seat belt information as an SA, which denotes optional equipment, which further proves that my car never had them, as the interior is original and there are not holes in the carpet or leather where they would have been installed.

So, it's a very small detail, but possibly the most interesting one I learned all weekend.

Oh, I also learned that I have a burnt exhaust valve and need a whole valve job and generally a whole engine rebuild.  But, I also know what the correct seat belt color is!

Share with us what you learned.
Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual, please contribute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
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1980 450SL  (for sale)
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al_lieffring

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 20:02:59 »
I learned that I selected way to broad a topic to cover in an hour. Sorry that I made everybody late for lunch.
66 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 22:26:37 »
Hi Al,
no, we weren't late for lunch!
I could have listened to you for another hour - thanks for a marvelous presentation!
Alfred

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dldubois

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 23:26:04 »
Al:  

You might have made us late for lunch but my tach cable no longer chatters....I never thought of pulling the cable out and soaking.....Also I'm going to get after that clock thanks to your presentation....

Thanks to Joe, I'm going to get working on my throttle linkage bushings.

Bob's got me thinking of recovering more of the interior, Jim and the thought of electronic ignition, etc.....plus all the great advise gathered just milling about.

Dana DuBois
1969 280sl
Pembroke Pines, FL

Peter van Es

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 23:43:19 »
Al,

your presentation was excellent, the info very good and the method of delivery with the camera great. I might tackle my Kienzle clock and try and get it to run more accurately.

To all of those with GREAT cars (Mike Salemi, Bob Possel, Tom Sargeant and everyone I've forgotten...) -- I'd like mine to look like that too but am afraid I'd never dare take it on a hard driven rally anymore!

I must do something about my engine bay though! Any tips on where to start for a beginner ?

It was also great meeting you all!

Peter (from the Detroit Airport Lounge)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:08:10 by vanesp »
1970 280SL. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

bogeyman

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 02:24:09 »
I learned a lot from the presentations and definitely will benefit from them, but my overall gain I think will be the confidence that I gained from owners that have tackled either full restorations or specific areas and achieved results that I consider to be expert quality.  Prior to this event, I didn't believe that I could get the end results that would satisfy my standards, but now after having seen the actual cars in person, I know that professional results are possible if an owner is truly dedicated to the process.
Rick Bogart
1970 280SL Black(040)/Parchment
1969 280SL Silver(180)/Green
1993 500E
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JamesL

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 06:39:01 »
Peter

If you mean "clean" the engine bay.... I used Gunk. Stuff we get here in the parts store and sprays on. I have a few brushes that I use for cleaning bikes and so...

Gunk
Brush
Rinse (with a watering can rather than pressure washer!)

Doing the arches and underside of the bonnet alone makes a massive difference. 
James L
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Raymond

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 12:06:30 »
I learned again how many great people we have in this group.  Everyone had something to contribute, even those who thought they were novices.  Some experience, some shared story, helps another owner piece together whatever puzzle he may be working on. 

We are in good hands with Peter VanEs at the helm.  Mike Salemi's style book is coming along nicely and will surely be a delight when it's done. Gernold reminded everyone that rain is just water.

Sunday afternoon, I learned how the innards of my window crank work as I repaired it with expert help from Al Lieffring and Dave Gallon. 

And of course, all you really need to do is follow Joe Alexander around and listen to all the questions he's asked and the discussions he generates.  The University really is a fabulous learning experience. 

I hope we can do it again in 2011, and I'm looking forward to the tantalizing thought of a Tech session in Alsace next year.



Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 12:53:32 »
QUOIS?

Somebody clue me in...Alsace??  You mean we'll have to come back from Dubai? ;)
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota Florida; Mattertal Switzerland; Montafon Austria
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...

mdsalemi

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 13:03:45 »
Trice,

If you were THERE you would know.

There is a possibility--only a possibility, and not yet even in the planning stages, of an "off year" event, and one in Europe for 2010.  It has been discussed as a driving, not technical event, and in the Alsatian region of France.  You can be sure there would be a bit of technical stuff transpiring of course, but that would not be the intent.  Peter and Cees are the originators of the idea and further information will probably come from them at the appropriate time.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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thelews

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 13:31:55 »
The offer is still on the table for Black Forest to hold a 113 technical event (social by me) at their facility. 
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
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Tonys113

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 13:32:58 »
I too where fascinated by the discussions generated by the presenters and there presentations. Don't despair Al, I thought it fascinating, can't wait to take the speed-o out and repair it, or the thought of Cruise Control. Who'd of thunk it.
I was most appreciative of the warm welcome I and my wife Vera received from all of the attendees. For a Newbie it was overwhelming. Of course the hospitality of our hosts Joe and Mary, with whom this could not be possible was just fantastic.
I did learn so much from Joe especially in his methodical approach to not only my problems but with everyones no matter how insignificant it may seem, every deal was explained to everyones satisfaction.
It was simply amazing.

Thank you everyone from making us feel really quite at home.

Tony
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mdsalemi

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 13:41:52 »
What did I learn?  Let me count the ways...

1)  What an unbelievably great group of people we have here from all corners of the world.

2)  I was very pleased to see friends like Naj, Waqas, Bob Possel, Dick, Ray, Keith Morgan, Robbie Ackerman, Bob Geco, Chuck Taylor, Tom Sargeant, Gernold  and oh so many others once again.  I was happy to finally meet new old friends such as Peter, Garry Marks, and others, people I have "known" for years but only emailed with.  I was equally pleased to meet new friends like Lurtch, Dave Gallon, Maistran, Roy and Kathy Wagner and others.

3)  I was honored to have convinced Peter to fly to Detroit and drive down with me, and happy he had the opportunity of many hours of motoring behind the wheel in my 280SL both to and from Blacklick.  I'm not often a passenger!  He is a wonderful guest that we welcomed into our home.  However when my wife was at dinner with neighbors on Friday night, when queried "Where's Mike?" the answer was, tongue-in-cheek, that "He ran away to Ohio with a man he met on the INTERNET!" ;)

4)  I was amazed once again at Joe Alexander, the master himself.  With a simple 3 turns of a linkage adjustment, he banished the demons of suboptimal drivability and completely changed the car I drove down into a well running car for the way back; the change was simple, the result amazing.  Cooling improved, shifting improved, driving improved, fuel economy improved...see separate post on that one.  The change was a band-aid until further proper adjustments can be made.

5)  I appreciated the more formalized presentations, and learned a lot from all of them.  Dave Gallon's was particularly informative; Jim's updated version has me searching the websites he indicated for things such as urethane bushings and kevlar brakes; JonnyB's literature collection is amazing.  I don't plan on taking apart any instrumentation but feel comfortable now in sending it to Al if I need work (!).  I also think we as a group are in excellent hands with our new President; thanks for taking on the responsibility and many thanks to Cees for taking us this far.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 13:53:00 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
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Dash808

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 20:16:48 »
PUB was well worth the trek from Hawaii.

It was impressive to see 20+ Pagoda's gathered, and to find such a  great, diverse, and obscenely knowledgeable group of members.  Now I can put a face and voice to the posts, lol. 

From Part # discection, to the innerworkings of the speedo, tach, & clock, aswell as valve and linkage tour demo's.  There was alot of info flying around in one weekend.   

Yes Al is the clock guru and it was only fitting that he offered clocks for sale.  I just assembled and fired up my clock and it is ticking away with the best of 'em. 

Michael Salemi did a good update with the Pagoda book.  And thanks again Michael for the Tee, the polo, and spectacular Pagoda in France poster  ;D which by the way was left in the cockpit of a US Air A320.  But that's another story.  But don't worry it was retrieved!

Huge thanks to Joe & Mary for hosting PUB '09!  You guys are wonderful.

See everyone in France, or 2011!

Chan (from Hawaii)



Chan Johnson
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waqas

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 04:31:49 »
Thanks to Mary and joe, we're all enjoying a post-PUB high and probably dreaming all kinds of improvements to make to our cars.

I can't stress enough how wonderful it was to meet everyone. It's these face-to-face events that really make our little community that much more special. (and accountable to each other for our electronic words).
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 06:22:10 »
The combination of Concourse cars to bone yard, parts and sub-assemblies,persentations and knowledgeable masters and learners is unbeatable, maybe even unrepeatable eslewhere  ;D ;D

Thanks to the residents of Mulberry Street, Blacklick,Oh.

naj
68 280SL

France

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 13:08:31 »
Ummm.....I believe this Alsace thing dates way back (several years ago), when I posted that the country and mountain roads near our landhaus are empty and fun driving, and that the local food and wine are great!...Cees expressed interest, and we offered our house as a base.  I hadn't realized that it had gained traction. 
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota Florida; Mattertal Switzerland; Montafon Austria
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...

Peter van Es

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 14:42:21 »
Actually, the Alsace thing has come up again as Cees now owns a house in the area also. But if you are around, we wouldn't say no to a little help organising it.

For all of you that missed PUB 2009 and would like to learn something, some of the presentations are up in the Technical Manual now: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/PUB/Start

Note that they are flash files (self playing presentations by clicking on the first slide) and will be large, so they take a while to load. Presentations from Alfred and Larry have little textual explanation too, so will likely move into the Technical Manual as pictures with explanation, at which point the presentations will be taken down.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 20:21:56 by vanesp »
1970 280SL. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Tom Colitt

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 15:37:10 »
Wow! It sounds like it was a great event as I thought it would be. I will definitely have to make it to the next one...

rwmastel

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2009, 03:17:12 »
There's been a lot of recognition of people and shared knowledge and the like, which is all well deserved.  There's nothing like working and learning with each other, face to face.  By starting this thread, I was hoping to have lots of people convey particular points of information that they learned at PUB 2009 to those who couldn't make it.  Let's share our new found knowledge!

To review:
I found there is great detail availble on microfiche (maybe not on books or on CD!) regarding the color codes of every part of our cars.
Dana learned how to remove and lubricate a tach cable so it won't bounce anymore.
Peter learned clock repair and will attempt to do his own.
Rick learned that owners can actually do a great job restoring components or whole cars, given the patience and assistance needed.
Ray learned how to adjust/repair the window lift mechanisms in the doors, and got a problem of his fixed.
Tony learned there are several details to tuning these mechanically injected engines and given time, any maladjustment can be reversed by those with experience.  (I hope your trip home was free from back fires.)

So, what specifically did you learn?  Share it with fellow enthusiasts around the world!!
Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual, please contribute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL  (waiting patiently for me)
1980 450SL  (for sale)
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waqas

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2009, 04:32:46 »
Andy learnt he actually had a door-open buzzer installed somewhere under-dash (thanks to Al).

I learnt:
  • You can get the little plastic covers for the hub-cap clips so your rims don't get scratched up (Michael Salemi's car).
  • The Spal blower and bypass pipe really helps the driver get some air from the AC (Tom Sargent's car, AC setup by Gernold).
  • It's not that hard to make my own factory-style tool for re-attaching the darn trailing arms (Joe's custom tool).
  • The fuel injectors open up around 40-50 psi and when functioning properly, they make a distinct chirping sound (Joe's injector tester).

More to come as my recollection allows...
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

bpossel

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 09:58:27 »
One item that comes to mind is that our canvas tops are not like the old style canvas tents when we were kids... straight canvas....

Our soft tops actually have a layer of thin rubber sandwiched between the canvas top and the inner liner.  If the top leaks (seeps) it is coming through the seams where the pieces are sewn together.


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL (sold)

Bob G

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 10:40:48 »
Their was so  much to learn from all the seminar speakers. The best part was Joe doing surgery on Rodd mastel's 230SL. That was very educational. Learning how the rocker arms push the valves up and down and that the adjustment on the number 4 cylinder exhaust could be temporally fix by a shim to allow more  clearance for the valve to seat was amazing.

Second watching Joe adjust the linkage on some of the cars was a marvel to see. I may not attempt it but at lease I feel more sure footed when talking  to a good Mercedes-Benz Technician.

Lunch  and dinner were great . It was nice to meet David Latham from Bud's Benz and see my good old friend from the east cost Gernold from SL tech. Bob Possels 280SL was stunning .

My only regret was not having my 280SL to share. may be in a couple of year it will  be up and running safe enough to make a cross country drive to Ohio.

Thanks again David Gallon for fining my glasses.Overall had a good time.

Bob Geco
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 05:37:18 by Bob G »
Bob Geco

rwmastel

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2009, 02:57:42 »
My only regret was not having my 280SL to share. may be in a couple of year it will  be up and running safe enough to make a cross country drive to Ohio.
Bob,

Maybe you and the others from California can get an event together out there so you all won't have to travel so far!!  There are MANY Californians in the Group, here are a few:
David Gallon
David Pease
James Huber
Dick Mentzer
Art ?
Alfred Esser
Larry Hemstreet
Pete Smith
Richard Simonds
Tom Collitt
Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual, please contribute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL  (waiting patiently for me)
1980 450SL  (for sale)
1997 E300 Diesel  (daily driver)
2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon  (off-roading)
2006 C230  (sold in 2015)
1994 E420  (sold in 2007)

al_lieffring

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2009, 13:12:37 »
I learned that the name of the village in Flanders (Liefferinge) that my family took it's name from means "ring of love" in Flemish. Thanks to Hellen Wolf

Al
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dwilli3038

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2009, 14:18:17 »
The most important thing that I learned ....well I guess it is not a new learning but rather a reinforcement of past learnings ....
We have a wonderful comunity filled with a diverse group of individuals that enrich each other through our interactions. What a totaly great time meeting old friends and making new friends.
'
In addition the curriculum was excellent! The presenters were all great and were very knowlegable. I can't wait for 2011
Daryl
'64 230 SL Buckeye Benz Scarlet interior and Grey top Serial # 508

zoegrlh

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2009, 11:36:24 »
I have a great time at PUB.  It was so nice to meet all you guys (and gals) that I have been" threading" with over the last several years.  I did learn so much from the presenters as well as the audience.  I want to thank Mary and Joe for their hospitality and hard work to make this experience one to remember.  The thing I learned was that all of us have a common goal, that is to preserve these cars for future generations to enjoy, and during our stewardship to also joy (/sadness) to the enjoyment of the "ride".

Also I want to thank Gernold for pointing out to me that his leather guy does wet the leather.  I will contact GAHH to let them know that this process is not harmful to the color dye.  And that my front side lights lens are backwards.

I want to also thank all of you for the nice comments concerning my talk on re-leathering.  Anytime you need help, just call.
Bob Hyatt
Robert Hyatt
Williamsburg, VA.

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R170, 2003 SLK230 Kompresser, Charcoal leather 211 on Firemist Red Met. 548, 5-speed auto
W211, 2007 E320 Bluetec, Cashmere MB Tex 144 on Arctic White 650, 7 speed auto

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2009, 18:59:55 »
I learned a great deal, but I also learned a couple of things after PUB
1) Al Lieffring must have powers. 100 miles out of Blacklick my odometer stopped working.
2) For the first time, I checked the speedo against my GPS. At an indicated 80mph, I was doing a true 72 mph (My tires are 185H14, so that shouldn't be an issue). Maybe MB wants us to feel exhilarated while minimizing the risk of a speeding ticket. Garry note: when you thought I was sleeping and you were doing 90, it was probably 82-83 mph.

Can't wait for 2011.
Gus
Gus

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bpossel

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2009, 17:07:17 »
Originally there were 2 nuts that held each shock absorber in the engine compartment.  Most replacements now use a lock nut...
Mine have the lock nut...  :(
bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL (sold)

Peter van Es

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2009, 08:38:57 »
Dave Gallon's presentation on Parts numbers now also added, as well as Jim Villers driveability improvements.

PUB 2009 Presentations

Peter
1970 280SL. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

bpossel

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Re: What did you learn at PUB 2009?
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2009, 10:25:41 »
Thanks Peter!

fyi...  I took Jim's advice and since returning from PUB 2009 I installed Carbon-Kevlar pads (frt & r).
WOW, what a difference it has made in stopping!  The overall feel of braking is greatly improved.

Thanks Jim!
Bob
bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL (sold)