Author Topic: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)  (Read 10085 times)

schadiqi

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No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« on: October 12, 2013, 16:15:43 »
I thought I had solved my problem and have ordered 6 new spark plug wire. I had noticed when the engine is warm I get no spark on 2 cylinders and the engine responds with power loss ( then runs only on 5 cylinders) When everything cools down again I get the spark back on the 2 cylinders again . When cold, the engine runs perfectly.

Today I added 6 new spark plug wire and I have the same problem with the 2 cylinder ( No spark when engine is hot) Well  I do not understand the world anymore ?

The following new Mercedes Benz parts I have installed so far :

ignition Coil
capacitor
distributor Cap
Rotor
New cable from ignition coil to the distribution center
6 new ignition

Why always the 2 cylinders ? Other cylinders are ok!
 Does this have anything to do with the ignition timing ? or distributor

For any help I am very grateful . I do not know where to look further

regards

Dirk

stickandrudderman

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 16:48:40 »
Sounds like you have distributor trouble. Have you taken a close look at the lobes and checked the bearings for play?
(Although you don't list it, I'm assuming you checked the plugs themselves).

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 17:00:20 »
Dirk, check your messages I send you a PM hope it helps.
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

schadiqi

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 17:01:08 »
Thanks for your feedback. All 6 plugs are new as well. How to checked the bearings for play? The distributor sits very tight ..no play. I may have to remove it and take a close look . Why always the 2 cylinders ? Other cylinders are ok

Thanks a lot

Dirk

Benz Dr.

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 18:15:08 »
If the two cylinders are side by side you may have head gasket problems. I would do a compression test on all cylinders to compare each one to the others.
Anything lower than 90 - 100 PSI and you probably won't get the cylinder to fire.

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

schadiqi

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 19:33:24 »
Hello
The compression test on all cylinders are very good . (New Engine with 8000 km!) I just do not see (visual) the spark (Test: pull out the cable with plug and insert other plug and put on ground when Motor running) when engine gets at operating temp no spark. So it must come from Distributor? , because all other cylinders are ok! Where is the fault.  When everything cools down again I get the spark back on the 2 cylinders again . When cold, the engine runs perfectly.

Thank you

Dirk


Benz Dr.

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 20:16:44 »
Have you checked your valve lash? Do you have compression on a hot engine?
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

GGR

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 20:17:54 »
This looks to be a mistery issue that takes a lot of head scratching to solve. I've had a few of them I will describe below. None of them correspond directly to your symptoms, but it may give you some ideas.

I had a similar issue on a W109 6.3 where I was loosing spark to four cylinders when the engine was hot. Eventually spark would disappear on all cylinders. The culprit was a wire connection to one of the two sets of points. When the engine was hot metal was expanding and the connection was too close to the distributor flange and was ending up touching it. As a result that set of points was grounded leading to the loss of 4 cylinders. After a while it was grounding the whole system and the engine was stopping. In your case we could imagine a similar thing happens but only at a certain position of the shaft relative to the flange (in case you have a bit of wobble in there) leading to the loss of the two cylinders corresponding to the lobes on the shaft in a given position.

Another issue that took a lot of head scratching was the wire that goes through the distributor (or the connection you have there) is damaged and you also have some grounding happening there. But you would be loosing spark on all cyliders.

More recently, I had two HT wires crossfiring because they were next to each other while spark was on two consecutive cylinders. Spark was jumping from one to the other wire leading to misfiring. This happened on an EDIS ignition which is much more powerful than the one you have, but you may try to run the wires as distant as possible from each other and see if your problem is still there.

ja17

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 21:04:45 »
The spark will start jumping out of the wires when the resistance becomes too high.

Make sure you have non carbon type spark plug wires first of all. Non resistor spark plugs will also help. Next take an ohm meter and check each spark plug wire from distributor through the spark plug connector.  The resistor wire ends at the spark plugs go bad. When this happens the spark finds the least path of resistance and escapes to ground (earth) any where it can.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

schadiqi

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2013, 18:40:15 »
Today as we had good weather in Bavaria we took the car for a ride again. When Engine is warm and it went off again to 5 Zylinder .. There is no spark on the cylinder 2. I then gently touched the distributor cap when the engine is running. Minimum rotation with a small force in the right direction and he ran again on all 6 Zylinder . I have minimal play on the distributor cap despite fixed braces. Is this normal? Or shaft wear? Or incorrect ignition timing?
But slowly we are getting closer
Thanks for all tips and best wishes
Dirk

GGR

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2013, 19:06:23 »
Normally, there is some sort of insulating plate in between the distributor and the cap. I've seen many cars running OK without it. However I've also read an article about how ignition could malfunction with that part damaged, see here: http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/ignition_misfiring_STAR.pdf

You could also try to turn the distributor cap by 180 degrees and see if the problem is still there, and if so on which cylinder.

Benz Dr.

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2013, 23:40:14 »
I don`t think you can turn the cap 180 degrees because it`s designed to only fit in one place.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

GGR

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2013, 23:49:08 »
I don`t think you can turn the cap 180 degrees because it`s designed to only fit in one place.

Oooops! That's true!

schadiqi

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 09:55:29 »
Thanks for all reply

After I put in a rebuilt distributor  (0231 116 062) all my problems are gone

Thanks

Dirk

stickandrudderman

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Re: No spark on 2 cylinders ! (1971,280 SL)
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 19:36:07 »
Shall I send you a bill? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D