Author Topic: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...  (Read 19631 times)

mdsalemi

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OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« on: January 05, 2008, 10:50:32 »
Members,

Kind of off topic but since we've had a long thread going on engine rebuilds, and between UK and USA I thought I'd share this; those of you interested in the general concept of engine rebuilding might be interested in the following.

The P51 Mustang fighter of WW-II was equipped with several variants of the Packard-Merlin V12 piston engine.  This was a much improved version of the Rolls Royce Merlin and was built under license.  Sorry friends across the pond.  The rebuilders tell me that the Packard was so much better than the Rolls.

Average life in civil, not military use of this engine was 600 hours before a total rebuild. (in automotive terms, that's after about 36,000 miles at 60mph cruise); more often work was needed in half that time.  Can you imagine having to do a valve job every 18,000 miles on your car?

Average life expectancy of a Merlin engine in combat was 7 hours.  Yes, 7.  Engines and parts were part of the supply chain pipeline--a big part.

After the war, many of these engines were relegated to hydroplane use which made airplane use look tame.  They were trashed quickly and often; and many ended up in the Detroit River and on Lake Washington in Seattle (site of hydroplane races); many were left submerged until parts became scarce and they started fishing them up!  You couldn't afford that engine in civil air use; they consumed about 65 GPH and were "high-performance".  The P51 could fly for about 2.2 hours per fill; so that 7 hour life was nearly 3 missions.

Automotively speaking, if you need any specific part for an engine, you can ($$$ not withstanding) simply have it made if you can't find it.  Think custom cams, etc.  Aeronautically speaking, you can ONLY use parts in a rebuild that are OEM and have been certified by the FAA.  So, if you are trying to rebuild a Merlin engine and you can't find the part, no matter how easy it may be to fabricate out of billet stock or what have you, it can't be done if one expects to remain with an airworthiness certification.  That's a big problem for the growing hobby among the super-rich of collecting air-worthy P51's.

Because of the above, the supply of Merlin parts was becoming pretty thin; and cylinder heads (aluminum) were getting trashed reqularly and becoming door stops; at least those that didn't make it into the scrap heap.  Like we have for Mercedes engines, there are a small handful of engine rebuilders who specialize in Merlins.  They are generally wild and eccentric people who have a lot of experience.  You just can't go down to your local Packard dealer and buy a new cylinder head!

Enter Jack Roush, he of Roush Racing.  He happens to be fabulously wealthy and a devotee of P51's.

That's a photo of me, and my wife, in front of one of Jack Roush's P51's this past August.  Yes, he has more than one.  This photo was taken shortly before dusk at Oakland Airport in Pontiac, Michigan.  Jack was just about ready to get in and leave to take the plane back home to Willow Run--a short 15 minute flight.  But he doesn't care to fly this old war bird in the dark so he had to high-tail it home.  He's 65 years old.

He developed a means to "rebuild" trashed cylinder heads and by this method, which he had certified by the FAA (a feat more expensive and time consuming than the fix itself) Roush Aviation has been able to make Merlin cylinder heads that have been door stops for decades into airworthy engines again.  The concept is much like dental work.  Grind out the bad metal, fill in with good aluminum on a proprietary ultrasonic table, and then re-machine back to specs before proceeding with the rebuild:
Here you can see the metal "fill" prior to re-machining.

Jack didn't stop there.  He also improved the engine by taking something simple--the wiper cam lifter--and designing a roller cam lifter in its place.  Again, it doesn't sound that complex, but the shop foreman told me that the papers for certification were three feet high!  Can you imagine the expense?

Here you can see the original wiper-style cam lifter on the left, and the new improved roller style (with Roush logo) on the right.

But, Mr. Roush didn't stop there.  Why not improve the piston design from the 1930's?  How about ceramic-coated pistons?  Yes, remember, you have to develop the improvement, test it, and THEN go through the complexities of FAA certification which requires deep pockets:

On the left is the new, smaller, lighter forged piston with ceramic coating versus the older original piston on the right.  The ceramic coating makes them withstand heat better, and the light weight improves things too.

In addition to work on the improved Packard version, they also will do rebuilds on the Rolls-Royce version which of course, powered the Supermarine Spitfire, the stuff of legends in the Battle of Britain.

Every one of those nuts you see is castellated, and there is one continuous wire threaded through the nut and bolt; kind of an early lock-nut as it were.  Yes it is as complex as it looks.  This engine is complete and was ready to ship back to the customer when I took this photo at Roush in March of 2006.  The large black assembly in the front of the engine is the supercharger.

In their own small way, every yahoo who goes to a Nascar race helps fund Roush Racing which of course, helps fund Roush which provided the funds to do this work.  Yes, Billy Bob from North Carolina in his own way, is partially responsible for keeping P51's flying.  It's a beautiful thing, amazing and true.  The pictures tell the story.  I should note that my wife is one of those yahoos, attending the 2005 UAW-Ford 400 at Talladega.[:0]

Roush Aviation grew out of Roush Racing.  Roush Racing moved from Michigan to North Carolina a few years back to be where all the OTHER teams were.  Many people chose not to leave Michigan, so Jack put them to work with his other hobby, P51's.  The result was just presented to you.

Engine rebuilds on the Merlin begin at $150,000.  The line forms on the left. ;)

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 18:51:43 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Paddy_Crow

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 14:13:35 »
Roush's big bucks come from engineering services to the auto industry.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

mdsalemi

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 14:50:42 »
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy_Crow

Roush's big bucks come from engineering services to the auto industry.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...




...and he's looking for engineers, too.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

ja17

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 20:07:53 »
Hello Michael,

Great information, an amazing story.  I was at the fly-in here in Columbus this last summer. Over 100 P51s flew in!! an amazing sight. The skies around Central Ohio were full of squadrons of P51s coming and going for days from all over North America.

I have the event program to show you at the next Pub.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 20:08:45 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
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1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
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hauser

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 00:21:54 »
There was a feature either on Discovery or TLC on the Roush Mustangs and P'ups.  They also discussed his vintage fighter P51.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

Richard Madison

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 04:32:44 »
Those of us who have owned vintage Ford Mustangs are drawn to the old P51's because of the Mustang name. These planes were outstanding WW II fighters.

The Mustang plane had little or no influence on the naming of the Ford car. The Mustang name was selected to evoke the power, the elegance,  the independence of the wild horses of the US Southwest.

Richard M (former owner of three 1966 Ford Mustangs)
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

mdsalemi

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 11:02:04 »
quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71

Those of us who have owned vintage Ford Mustangs are drawn to the old P51's because of the Mustang name. These planes were outstanding WW II fighters.

The Mustang plane had little or no influence on the naming of the Ford car. The Mustang name was selected to evoke the power, the elegance,  the independence of the wild horses of the US Southwest.

Richard M (former owner of three 1966 Ford Mustangs)



Weeeeellllll Richard, it might not be that simple, if you read the history books.  In Mustang: 40 Years by Randy Leffingwell, if he is to be believed, it is reported that the P51 Mustang's reputation was such that [Ford Motor Company's] designer John Najjar proposed the name for the new car after the fighter!

Also noted, in The Ford Century by Russ Banham and distributed to their employees in 2003 (a gorgeous coffee-table hardcover mind you!) is the following on page 68:  "The Mustang was named for the famed fighter aircraft of World War II, and not, as generally believed, for the horse that became its emblem".

..to which you would have every right to say, "Yeah, right, you smart-aleck Salemi, and HOOTERS is named for the OWL, too! ;)

It (P51) was originally called the NA73 in the design phase, and the first order was actually by our pals the Brits!  They were the first to call it the Mustang I.  We called it the Apache.  Their name was better and Apache was dropped.  P51 Apache?  I don't think so.  P51 Mustang?  Yeah, baby!

You are oh so correct that the name "Mustang" does indeed conjur up images of the power, elegance and freedom of the wild horses of the American south-west, and this was might ALSO have been on the minds of the Brits when they named the plane AND of Ford execs Iacocca and Frey when the name was settled on for the car.

Sidenote: the cars internal code-name, T-5, was also the original name of the Mustang in its German variant as it could not be badged as a Mustang until the name was bought.  T-5 also became the name of the 5-speed manual transmission by Borg-Warner.

1965 Mustangs in pristine condition fetch a good buck these days.  I'd love to see a pristine 1965 Ford T-5.  Now that would be way cool.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 15:18:56 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

TR

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 11:39:19 »
Quote
Originally posted by mdsalemi
...The Mustang name was selected to evoke the power, the elegance,  the independence of the wild horses of the US Southwest...


Michael -- People may be surprised to know wild Mustangs are still running loose in some areas of the American west, and not just the southwest.  I have had the great pleasure of seeing small herds in southwestern Idaho, northwestern Nevada, and southeastern Oregon.  Encountering them is a rare thing, and I have only spotted them on very remote, extremely light-traveled, back roads ... yet good paved roads, suitable for W113 driving.  The lead stallion normally behaved in a "spirited" fashion if his herd was close to the road as we passed by.  Gorgeous and inspiring creatures those wild Mustangs.


Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

Richard Madison

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Re: OT: Speaking of Engine Rebuilds...
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2008, 15:20:05 »
Just to annoy you with a little more Ford Mustang trivia, the emblem of the horse on the Mustang grill looks left which is counter to the way horses appear to spectators on US race tracks. When asked why left, a Ford spokesman said, "Mustangs are wild. They run in any direction they want to."

Richard M
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).