Author Topic: engine stalling prior to warm up  (Read 8290 times)

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engine stalling prior to warm up
« on: June 07, 2004, 09:44:57 »
I have this weird stalling problem.  The car starts up fine when cold, and idles fine.  I drive about 1 mile and slow down to stop at the stop light.  The car is now partially warm, the needle on the temp gauge is a little above the mark between 100 and 180.  As soon as I take the car out of gear, the idle speed drops and the engine stalls.

The engine starts back up fine and I drive off.  Once the engine is at operating temperature, the problem goes away and idles fine when I come to a stop.

If I start the car cold, but do not drive it, simply let the car idle until it warms up, the stalling does not occur.

Anyone have thoughts on a solution?  Linkage issue?  Warm up device issue?  Points, plugs, ignition timing should be okay.

Thanks,
Don
71 4 speed manual

George Davis

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2004, 11:17:42 »
Don,

the thermostat on the '70 and '71 warm-up device should shut off at 50-55 degrees C (122-131 F), whereas on earlier cars it shuts off at 65-70 C (149-158 F).  Maybe the device is shutting off while the engine is still not quite warm enough to "catch" itself when the throttle closes suddenly.  The throttle dashpot may assist here, by slowing down throttle closing.

So two possible solutions: if the dashpot isn't functional, a new one may help.  Or, if the '70/'71 warm-up device thermostats are interchangeable with the earlier ones (I don't know if they are), substituting an earlier thermostat to delay warm-up device shut-off may help.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 11:35:40 »
I guess if I got the symptoms correct, I might stand a chance of getting the proper advice.  I've spent more time studying my stalling problem.  Here goes:
A short time after initial start up, the engine speed will decrease and cut out, during idle.  This will occur if I drive it or not.  This morning, I sat in the car at idle after start up and the tach slowly began to drift up and down.

Has anyone performed the job "Testing of Fuel Mixture" in the manual 07-14/13?  It is under topic "F. Testing of Warmrunning Device."  If so, please describe the procedure, since the manual might just as well be in german.  I don't quite understand it.

I purchased a Gunson gas analyzer, but I was not able to get the CO down below 8.5, indicating a too rich mixture. The correct CO level should be 4.  I will perform this test again after driving the car around for a while to make sure that everything is cleared out prior to the test.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice.
Don,
71 4 speed

Cees Klumper

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 13:05:18 »
I am definitely not an expert on this type of problem, but anyway if it were my car, I would first check to see whether with the engine cold the warm-up device opens (air suction which can be heard by either taking the air filter off the FI pump or by holding a piece of platic tubing to the intake holes on the filter) and whether it shuts off at the appropriate temperature as indicated in George's post. If that checks out, I am not sure whether the chance of that being the problem is very high, but then I might take the thermostat housing off just to make sure it can move freely etc. I would also check for air leaks on the tube that runs from the FI pump to the cold start valve on the intake manifold, plus I would check whether that valve is leaking or not (test procedure covered in previous posts, involves taking out the small -7mm?- test bolt our of the housing). I would also check whether the fuel linkage is adjusted properly, both the intake venturi and the FI pump at their stops at idle, and the air screw on the intake manifold at least partway open, no air leaks there ets. Then the distributor - is it the correct type and are there any air leaks on the vacuum line. Assuming all that checks out, I would let the engine warm up and set the idle mixture using the Gunson tester. I have one and it works very well - when I first started my newly rebuilt engine last April the idle mixture was at a whopping 10% and I had to lean out the mixture by 7 or so clicks. Now it's steady at 3,5-4%. If you cannot get the idle mixture to the correct value when the engine is warm, while the warm-up device and the cold start valve are functioning properly, and the linkages are set up correctly, then I would start to suspect the FI pump and turn back to this forum for professional advice! Oh and maybe it's worthwile to check the hose + valve going to the brake booster?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
« Last Edit: June 09, 2004, 13:06:06 by cees klumper »
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2004, 09:00:31 »
Thanks George,
What is the throttle "dashpot".  I don't see it identified in diagrams that I have.
Don

quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

Don,

the thermostat on the '70 and '71 warm-up device should shut off at 50-55 degrees C (122-131 F), whereas on earlier cars it shuts off at 65-70 C (149-158 F).  Maybe the device is shutting off while the engine is still not quite warm enough to "catch" itself when the throttle closes suddenly.  The throttle dashpot may assist here, by slowing down throttle closing.

So two possible solutions: if the dashpot isn't functional, a new one may help.  Or, if the '70/'71 warm-up device thermostats are interchangeable with the earlier ones (I don't know if they are), substituting an earlier thermostat to delay warm-up device shut-off may help.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual


knirk

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2004, 11:50:44 »
Don,

som dashpot info:

http://www.sl113.com/forums/index.php?topic=1368

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

George Davis

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Re: engine stalling prior to warm up
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2004, 15:04:45 »
Don,

based on your second description, the dashpot will not help.  I'll be so bold as to guess that your warmrunning device (WRD) is not functioning properly, and may be stuck in the off/closed position.

To test it, as Cees said, start the engine when cold and listen for air being sucked in at the little air filter.  Alternatively, just pinch shut the rubber hose that connects the WRD to the pipe that runs behind the block.  Idle speed should drop immediately; if it doesn't, the WRD isn't on/open.

When the coolant is at/above the shut-off temp, pinching the hose should have no effect.  If idle speed drops then, the WRD is not shutting off properly.  The CSV should be checked for leakage, too, just to be sure.



George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual