Author Topic: What do people think of gas prices?  (Read 61296 times)

RBurg

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2008, 19:03:07 »
Remeber the  days of Carter when you were told to turn down the heat. Gas lines. [***]

The other night one of the people that stated Green Peace was on a conserative talk radio (Jason Lewis)and he has done a 180 stating in his new book that we need nucular power - drill for oil and use the trees for the good of the people.
Don't put mother earth in front of the people on this earth, use the earth for the good of the people. We are here for a short time - the earth has been here for millions of year.

Lets dive our our Pagodas and enjoy the better part of the mechinical age.
[***]

[Edited by Moderator to remove political and environmental issues not appropriate for this automobile forum.]
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 02:44:06 by 280SL71 »

Rolf

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2008, 09:59:50 »
Gas prices indeed are on the rise. I think we should be more concerned with the much too fast increase of the price of crude oil. This increase will have a much greater impact on the world's economy then just the increase in gasoline prices.

Raymond

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2008, 09:50:08 »
One of the things I have always enjoyed about the SL113 organization is how most of us carefully avoid politics and religion.  I am saddened to see Mr. RBurg trample on that and see some others pipe in with approval.

We all have opinions about gas prices, taxes, and governments.  Most of those expressed are simply because the spokesperson's particular ox is being gored.  

That our beloved cars are useless without oil is a fact.  That this forum is not the place to instigate political demegoguery should be a fact as well.
Ray
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seattle_Jerry

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2008, 13:33:52 »
I guess "general discussion" needs to be further defined then as "general discussion about pagodas"?

Personally I enjoy the variety of view points. If you only hang out with fellow Sierra Club or Young Republican members you will eventually suffer from a lack of perspective.

Drilling U.S. oil is literally the last thing we should do in my opinion. It is short sited. Let the rest of the world use up their reserves. $5.00 a gallon now is nothing compared to the prices when the supply really starts to run out.

We don't need more supply...just less demand.

seattle_Jerry

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2008, 13:43:53 »
Yes, TheLews I live in the Seattle area, Tacoma now actually.

As I was commutting home Friday I was thinking how ridiculous gas engines are for the Seattle area commute. 2 hours to go 30 miles.
Seriously, the equivalent of an electric trolling motor would work better.

I also think about my work trucks that get 10 to 15 mpg. They drive 20 minutes and then sit in one location all day. That would be ideal for an electric setup.


glennard

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2008, 17:41:32 »
While sipping my $32 a gallon coffee latte, I figured oil and Pagodas are both commodities - each have alternatives and obey the law of supply and demand.  Took a Pagoda trip to the local $30,000 a gallon Perfumery for my Honey's birthday.  After the ride in the 113 burning fossil fuel I capped it off with a $15 a gallon German beverage.  Probably have a $35 a gallon 'designer water' at Fenway Park tomorrow,-- but that doesn't mean I'm NOT mad as hell about Exxon making 30 cents($0.30) a gallon on gas.------
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 18:17:49 by glennard »

scoot

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2008, 09:59:39 »
$5 gas should be for pagodas and other special occasion type cars.  Suburbans, H2s, Expeditions -- _occasionally_ I see them actually towing something but usually it's the mom at the grocery store.  I say raise the gas tax, get it up to $10 per gallon, and we may actually start thinking about what it costs and reduce consumption.  Exception:  the group of people who are really hurting from this are the minimum wage earners just trying to get by who can't afford a new economy car.  Perhaps a change to the "gas guzzler" tax on new cars, by a factor of 10?  100?  Taxing used car sales that are gas guzzlers?   Fuel tax credit for low-income households?   For the first time in my life I'm actually seeing a shift in tide from tolerance of SUV drivers to contempt.  I'm in the minority here, but I'm actually glad to see the $5 / gallon prices that are now appearing in my area.   (sorry for the soapbox - my stats:  I drive 5 miles to work in a Ford Ranger 3.0 L that gets 20 mpg, my partner's car is a Prius that either of us drive whenever we are going further than my job, then there is the Pagoda which hardly gets driven at all, and a 67 Alfa Duetto that hardly gets driven at all)
Scott Allen
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JamesL

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2008, 11:09:04 »
Over here, the "Chelsea Tractor" as it's known is widely derided by all except those that drive them. And while our gas prices are higher for all, they are already being taxed more for their emissions, and more in areas (like London) where we have congestion charging which is scaled on emissions.

However, where they are really being taxed is in depreciation. A friend has a B*W X5 that he bought for £36,000 just over 2 years ago. He's being moved to Florida and has to sell it. He's had it on the market for a couple of months, and started advertising it at £18k. No callers. He's finding that as each week goes by, another £500 is coming OFF the asking price for similar cars. He reckons he'll struggle to give it away. Odd thing is, it's a diesel and it gets over 30mpg - he reckons the "sticker shock" of well over £100 for a tank is not helping

Which really bodes well for GM, Ford and others whose US sales strategy is propped up by selling V8 trucks and SUVs[:0]

And scoot is right on the fixed/low income families. However, the big shock for us all will come when paying the winter fuel bills.



As an aside, BBCs Top Gear started a new series last week and amidst much doom and gloom on fuel prices, decided to have a race. 5 supercars around their track. The winner was the Audi R8, the last placed was some big Ferrari. It managed 1.7miles on the gallon of fuel it (and each of the cars) was allocated for the race (the Audi managed 5, just ahead of the SLR). They then discussed the Prius and it's "green-ness" looking at manufacture of nickel batteries etc, and then decided to put it through it's paces around the same track. It got something like 18mpg.

The B*W M3 that followed it got.... over 19mpg
James L
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scoot

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2008, 15:16:22 »
quote:
Originally posted by Tosh


However, where they are really being taxed is in depreciation. A friend has a B*W X5 that he bought for £36,000 just over 2 years ago. He's being moved to Florida and has to sell it. He's had it on the market for a couple of months, and started advertising it at £18k.
Given the depreciation, why doesn't he bring the X5 here?  There are exemptions for foreign nationals who want to bring non-USA spec cars into the country....
Scott Allen
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waqas

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2008, 19:30:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by scoot

quote:
Originally posted by Tosh


However, where they are really being taxed is in depreciation. A friend has a B*W X5 that he bought for £36,000 just over 2 years ago. He's being moved to Florida and has to sell it. He's had it on the market for a couple of months, and started advertising it at £18k.
Given the depreciation, why doesn't he bring the X5 here?  There are exemptions for foreign nationals who want to bring non-USA spec cars into the country....



Those exemptions are for only 1 year, and they are not allowed to sell it locally. After the 1 year is up, they either need to send it back or have it modified to pass DOT standards. A friend had to go through that circus....

Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

benzportland

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2008, 20:41:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by scoot

$5 gas should be for pagodas and other special occasion type cars.  Suburbans, H2s, Expeditions -- _occasionally_ I see them actually towing something but usually it's the mom at the grocery store.  I say raise the gas tax, get it up to $10 per gallon, and we may actually start thinking about what it costs and reduce consumption.  Exception:  the group of people who are really hurting from this are the minimum wage earners just trying to get by who can't afford a new economy car.  Perhaps a change to the "gas guzzler" tax on new cars, by a factor of 10?  100?  Taxing used car sales that are gas guzzlers?   Fuel tax credit for low-income households?   For the first time in my life I'm actually seeing a shift in tide from tolerance of SUV drivers to contempt.  I'm in the minority here, but I'm actually glad to see the $5 / gallon prices that are now appearing in my area.   (sorry for the soapbox - my stats:  I drive 5 miles to work in a Ford Ranger 3.0 L that gets 20 mpg, my partner's car is a Prius that either of us drive whenever we are going further than my job, then there is the Pagoda which hardly gets driven at all, and a 67 Alfa Duetto that hardly gets driven at all)



My commute is about 6 miles, and yet I am deeply concerned about the prices because we all pay for it one way or another.  Assuming we added a $5 gallon tax today, the cost of fuel would be irrelevant because there would be few places to drive - most businesses would fail ( and lots already are).  I am not sure this will help minimum wage earners.

Longtooth

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2008, 00:38:44 »
My former comments (see my former post on this thread) reflected my thoughts about increased gas prices.  I see in the meantime many comments have been made that may or may not be interpreted as "political" depending on one's particular point of view or "opinion" on the higher gas prices.

It occurred to me (for reasons stated below) that you cannot separate some things from politics ---- national energy policies (or lack of them), global warming (or lack of it), alcohol fuel, etc being just some of those.

I've been interested in future energy sources issues for several years, and have done some research on the topic over tiime, so the oil prices increases and consequent gas price rises in US (and elsewhere) do not come as a surprise considering that the 5 largest proven reserves are in countries of Middle East, and exports from these countries are also.... and they're OPEC members.  World consumption projections have been known for several years... yet OPEC exports began to be curtailed (reduced) ... OPEC decision... not due to problems in production.  As the demand continued to grow at predicted rates, the marginal difference between supply and demand began to be reduced.  This put crude oil production rates marginally much tighter relative to consumption rates. Whenever marginal supply exist the price always rises due to uncertainties of production meeting demand.... and the tighter the margins the greater the price, even if production meets demand.  

Given known predicted increases in demand (which aren't out of range of the projections at the time, by the way), there were steps taken by Saudi's to increase supply... but not necessarily with sufficient lead-times to insure they could keep up with demand increases in time... and why shouldn't they?  The tighter the margin of supply to demand the greater the price premium due to uncertainties... and this isn't due to "speculation", but simple risk premiums.

For some facts.... the US's proven oil reserves amount to 2.9 years worth of total US oil consumption at current rate of consumption... so even if all the offshore and wild-lands in Alaska and elsewhere were immediately pumping it all out, it amounts to a pitance in world consumption... and a pitance in US consumption since US has by far and wide several times over the largest per-capita consumption --- that's why we have such a high relative standard of living.... more lighting, more single family dwellings built further and further from places of business and employment (since we have lots of undeveloped but habital environment land ... a geographic uniqueness of US, plenty of readily available supply of water (though draughts can bring some areas to their knees so to speak), greater use of air conditioning, etc.  Consumer's don't use the bulk of oil energy supplies by the way... commerce does, so transportation (trucking, rail-roads, airborn), and mfg'ing and businesses use the most by far.  Oil consumption by consumers is greatest for home heating, less so for personal transportation.

Fact is that only 3% of oil consumption is used for electrical production, so switching to electrical cars won't reduce oil consumption.  Almost 50% of electrical energy in this country is supplied by coal burning plants... nuclear and natural gas make up mearly all the rest... the remaining electrical energy is supplied by hydro-electric with tiny, tiny amount supplied by wind, solar, and geothermal sources.

Point is only that politics on what we do to utilize resources without also impacting the environment (at least not making it worse than it already is... not to mention improving it any),  while also obtaining and attracting the financing to build the infrastructure to deal with switching to electrical energy sources for consumer transportation is a political issue. If we switch to major electrical transportation forms for consumer transportation it will reduce reduce oil consumption somewhat for consumer tranportation (personal transportation---- car's, pick-ups, SUV's, etc) but only to the level that electrical energy is used in place of the gasoline engine, but it will certainly require major investments in more coal fired (but that means either more dirty coal burning plants or clean coal plants ... which is more expensive (per kWhr) than the dirty coal plants..., nuclear (but that brings up major environmental issues), and/or natural gas consumption... which will increase overall demand for natural gas and hence price thereof.

Switching to ethanol using corn is a fiasco (imo, politically geographically beneficial, rather then energy motivated) as it uses nearly as much energy to produce the ethanol from corn as it provides so net delta in energy consumption is marginal at best, and given limits to arible (sp?) land and corn belt not using irrigation systems it makes corn more expensive for food-stuffs and other corn based products... means meat prices, milk prices, etc must go up.  Brazil's use of ethanol from cane is far more efficient energy wise... about 4-5 times more energy supplied from cane than it uses to produce it... and cane isn't used for human and meat products (animal) consumption other than for sugar content.... so Brazil's energy independance using their combination of cane for ethanol and their oil production (which isn't a minor part of their total energy consumption, btw) is not applicable to the US as a model.

One thing we can count on absolutely... energy costs, regardless of the raw sources, will continue to increase in relative cost terms, OPEC will continue to insure a marginal delta between world demand and world supply to their own economic benefit, and switching to alternative energy sources in US will not be without it's costs... major ones... and the question is only who's going to pay the bill for it.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

seattle_Jerry

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2008, 01:52:46 »
Geothermal seems promising except for the part that we would be putting all our power plants in National Parks. We didn't need Yellowstone anyway.

I think a variable gas tax would be interesting... based on income, MPG, or the whim of a madman.

paulr

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2008, 12:39:23 »
Certainly not if you drive to the restaurant...

quote:
There's no such thing as a free lunch.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 18:12:24 by 280SL71 »

mdsalemi

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2008, 14:14:34 »
There are very big and important difference in "the price of gas" when the price is caused by taxation (and it's inherent social benefit as Europe and Canada provide) and when it is a supply problem (as in the fabricated crises of 1973 and 1979) and the current emerging economy issues of today combined with speculation on the commodities markets.

Nobody can go back in time and put back in place public transit like trains that we once had here, or streetcars, or what have you.  We can't undo the suburban growth.

The price of oil has caused our entire economy to teeter on the brink of depression; (we're past a recession)and has affected almost every part of most people's lives here.  We're past inflation now, and the current interest rates have no affect on these things.

Anyone with bright ideas, apply for a job with the new president in November...
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Chad

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2008, 15:16:36 »
How sick I am of seeing graduated taxing schemes as the stop-gap/cure-all unimaginative solution to community and social ills.  Hasn't the welfare state mentality crept into the american dream and stifled our economy enough?  The solution to a problem is never going to be to discourage the efforts and employment/free market of those who may in fact be talented enough to find a better solution to it.

quote:
Originally posted by seattle_Jerry
I think a variable gas tax would be interesting... based on income, MPG, or the whim of a madman.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 15:17:28 by Chad »

scoot

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2008, 20:03:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Chad

 The solution to a problem is never going to be to discourage the efforts and employment/free market of those who may in fact be talented enough to find a better solution to it.

...which works fine for those talented enough to find a solution.  Too bad that the world is made up of those with more talent and those with less talent...   Shall we just say F-it to the people with less talent but who still try?  I don't think that's what our country is about.
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Longtooth

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2008, 21:05:22 »
The market "speculation" on oil futures as a "reason" for the cost of gas is not something that is anything more than it has been since oil futures began trading on the markets.

As in any supply/demand commodity, the risks in estimating the supply vs it's demand at any given point in time in the future ... speculation on whether supply at that given point in time will exceed demand and by how much or the inverse is inherent in every stock market trade... in equities as well as commodity futures.  

Whenever estimated future supply exceeds demand by a small amount the risks of error in the estimate is inherently greater than when the future supply estimates exceed demand estimates by larger amounts, hence the risk premium in the futures trade will increase.  There are and have been significant risks in supply vs demand since Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, with consequent futures markets having inherently greater risk that the supply could be reduced with dramatic reductions in marginal supply over demand ... followed by issues in other OPEC and oil producing regions... Venezuala's saber rattling with Columbia and nationalization of the oil co's operating there, US invasion of Iraq and impact on Iraq's oil supply capability, Nigerian rebel insurrection impacts on the oil pumping and distribution systems, and the list goes on and on, now to also include major perceived risks related to Iran's impacts on supply routes (including their own supply... and they have the 2nd largest proven reserves behind Saudi Arabia.  Parenthetically, Iraq's projected 2008 production is now on par with their pre-war production (before 1st Gulf war).

Basic problem is simply that 1) tapping new reserves costs more than it did to tap the old reserve fields... not due to inflation, but because the known proven reserves are more difficult to get out (deeper, thru more rock, mixed with more water, etc), 2) OPEC controls most of the worlds known proven reserves by far... hence they control supply... hence margins between supply & demand.  In other words, oil supply / demand and prices aren't operating in a free market classical supply / demand economic model. .. and haven't been for a long long time (nothing has changed in this regard, btw).

Simply stated, the worlds (and our) economies are dependant on oil... period ... for the forseeable future.  Any strangle hold on free supply / demand economics will always hike prices... and since entire economy's are dependant on having sufficient oil to meet energy needs of commerce and consumers, the impact of not having sufficient supply has huge negative economic impacts... in other words if you were trading in oil futures you'ed be a fool to not price your buy's without regard to the risks that supply may not meet demand by even a small amount since even small deficiencies will force prices to sky... everybody's going to bid a higher and higher price to get what they need rather than let the entire economy collapse.  No brainer.

There's no near-term fixes... no political fixes... no near term knobs to turn and as long as the OPEC cartel can continue to operate unimpeded then supply will remain constrained.  People like to "blame" the problem of escalating oil prices on emerging nations ---- China, India, others, when in fact their per-capita demand is a tiny fraction of US per-capita demand... so as they demand more oil to improve their own economic status and standards of living, it puts increasing pressure on the marginal ability to meet demand.  It's a fact that the next 5 largest consumers of oil have total demand which barely equals the US's demand alone on a per-capita basis.

The political issue emerges since the higher US gas prices that result have the greatest relative economic impact on the lowest income segment of the population... and no relative economic impact what-so-ever on the highest income segment of the population. The more the income the less the relative economic impact... so of course this is going to get congress's and politician's attention since their constituancies that will vote for their retention or elect their opponent have by far more votes in folks with relative economic impact to their lives than those that don't.

In a political environment and from a very large overview perspective, the only means gov't has to deal with the large voter and economic impacts for high gas and oil prices is to tax the richest segment of society more to help the broader segment of economic consumption and jobs so I predict we'll see congressional action along these lines before the end of 2009.  

Neither of the presidential candidates have any current rhetoric (as of tonight's news broadcasts) that relates to anything in the near term.. i.e. less than 10-15 years out.

thelews

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2008, 06:37:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi

The price of oil has caused our entire economy to teeter on the brink of depression; (we're past a recession)


Any published statistics to support this statement?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 06:38:17 by thelews »
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mdsalemi

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2008, 08:46:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by thelews

quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi

The price of oil has caused our entire economy to teeter on the brink of depression; (we're past a recession)


Any published statistics to support this statement?


What statistics would you believe?   17,000 GM workers had their last day of work on Friday.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080619/AUTO01/806190467/1148/rss25

Consumer confidence is at its worst in years.
http://www.conference-board.org/economics/ConsumerConfidence.cfm  

There is a mortgage and lending crisis heretofore unseen.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-11-foreclosures_N.htm  http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/mar/18/creditcrunch.marketturmoil1

Oil prices, and I don't mean just gasoline, have caused Dow Chemical to raise prices across the board 20% a few months ago, and another 25% a few weeks ago.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91841241

All the auto manufacturers--(all but Honda) posted record sales drops in June. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gsz39lpYrNG7OiKs3FJt6jhV6NEwD91LFVLO0

Unemployment is bad and getting worse--moreover, even many experts (here in Michigan at least) believe the numbers to be skewed because many have just given up looking for work that does not exist. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm  http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/q-a-time-to-panic-about-unemployment/

Even heretofore "recession proof" sectors are having trouble. http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121487405694118001.html

Once respected firms in financial sectors are having their principals sent to jail. http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/former-bear-stearns-fund-managers-are-arrested/

There's a tremendous ripple effect with many of these things all tied together.  My local bank, reviewing small business credit lending, only approved $1M in lending vs. $20M in applications.  Many small businesses won't survive without funding.  Dow Chemical makes the raw materials for many plastics--everything has been going up which is affecting the price of everything.

Economists and policy makers once tied "inflation" to money supply and interest rates.  Sorry, John, I don't need "statistics" (from who?) to tell me that any change in the interest rate today--up or down--would have little affect on the price of bread on the table, energy to heat my home next winter, or gas to get to work.

While there are many in government (hey, it's an election year!) who still are debating whether or not we are in a recession, there are those living it.

If none of this affects you, great.  It's affecting most of the country.  I don't know whose statistics you would believe, but just read the paper, turn on NPR, read the WSJ and make an intelligent value judgement about what is happening in the country.

Now John, let me play Devil's Advocate with you.  You asked for statistics to back up what I said about a depression.  Nobody in power would ever admit we are in a depression.

Let me ask you--what is a depression or recession?  What can you show me that might prove we are NOT in one?  I pointed you to many depressing articles here about our economy and the things affecting it.  Can you show me anything with any good news?  Good news that would be good for our country?

Rather then ask a pointed question with no real answer, if you don't believe what I suggest, show me the good news.  And show it to me in a way that at least here in Michigan, we'd believe it.  All the tens of thousand who have lost their jobs homes and businesses this year alone.
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seattle_Jerry

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2008, 09:02:58 »
I think its more of a Stag-flation like the Carter era.

I see nothing wrong with making people pay more money for gas for gas guzzlers (non-commercial). No one is forcing them to drive a behemoth.
There could be an annual allotment of gallons per driver at the baseline price after they exceed that amount, the price goes up.

Of course then there would be a market for people who get driver's licenses without cars so they could sell their allotment on craig's list.

The rich would only drive cars owned by a corporation and get out of it through a commercial vehicle loophole...leaving the middle class bearing the burden in our already bell curve graduated tax system.

benzportland

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2008, 09:37:29 »
quote:

Let me ask you--what is a depression or recession?  What can you show me that might prove we are NOT in one?  I pointed you to many depressing articles here about our economy and the things affecting it.  Can you show me anything with any good news?  Good news that would be good for our country?



The difference between a depression and recession of course is largely a matter of which university the economist speaking on television went to - it is an academic matter of definition.  Generally it has to do with the duration of the receding economy and/or lack of economic growth.  For people who have lost their jobs and homes, it is a distinction without difference.

thelews

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2008, 09:49:32 »
quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi
[What statistics would you believe?  


I would believe the accepted definition of a recession by economists, the financial community and government...two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, not less GDP growth, but negative GDP growth.  That is not happening now and is not even close to a depression (not seen since the 30s).  Unemployment at 5.5% is not extreme by any measure, but up from the 4.5% level that has become "normal."  Certain industries and certain groups of individuals are experiencing recessionary and even depressionlike circumstances, unfortunate, but a consequence of any economy going through change and adjustment from circumstances and sectors that were excessively over or underpriced.  The U.S. economy as a whole, as of this date, is not in recession and has held up remarkably well in the face of very strong headwinds.  How long this will continue?  Anybody's guess.

Good news? At least for me...

« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 17:01:31 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

seattle_Jerry

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2008, 10:30:56 »
"Can you show me anything with any good news? Good news that would be good for our country?"

I saved money on my car insurance.  :)

280SE Guy

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Re: What do people think of gas prices?
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2008, 15:59:09 »

An alternative to the rising fuel prices





:D


1971 280SE, 6 Cyl MFI, Anthracite Grey with Grey MB Tex