What do people think of gas prices?

[JamesL]

Just looking back through this thread...

It seems that in % increase terms, the US has seen higher rises than we have

I wonder where Exxon is making it's money?

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Tosh

I wonder where Exxon is making it's money?

Everywhere!

[waqas]

quote:Originally posted by Tosh

I wonder where Exxon is making it's money?

They're trying to maximize profits while their cronies are still running the show... until November that is.

I've been using this opportunity to try and get my car to run as best as possible-- not too rich or lean. Next stop: measure the CO % level and make adjustments.  Anyone ever install an O2 sensor?  This would obviously only be for monitoring purposes through a voltmeter in the cockpit. I've been contemplating doing it for a while now...

[paulr]

Glennard...looks like preposterous petrol prices to me.

[seattle_Jerry]

"I'm not sure where this is headed, but I think the problem is that we are not paying the cost of environmmentalism and what we need is to reduce demand rather than increase supply of something that is finite in nature."-Scoot

I agree with Scoot.

The problem is that we will never see viable 100% clean energy vehicles until all of the oil is used up. There is no way big oil would let that happen.

Another problem is all of the gas stations. There won't be a replacement for the gas car unless it somehow utilizes all of these stations.

A third obstacle is loss of jobs. Nothing will fly unless it creates as many jobs as it displaced when the refineries close.


Personally I say tax the S**T out of gas up to European standards. Use the money to build better rail and bus systems. Yes there will be people who can't afford to drive. But, there are people all over the world who can't afford to drive that walk, carpool, take the bus etc.

Marketing from the car companies and probably big oil convinced America that we all need cars and/or have the right to drive.

[dhunter]

I was in France five years ago and the price (at over a Euro/$1.60 a litre) then was well over what we are paying in North America now during this latest "crisis"! However everyone went about their daily routines and seemed to go where they wanted when they wanted. Of course, unlike North America they weren't driving some 7.5 litre V10 double axle crew cab pickup! My buddy's Audi diesel went over 1,000 km to an tank and I don't even remember having to fill up!

MPG in North America peaked in the late eighties. Cheap gas soon took the focus off of fuel economy and advances in automotive engineering went into more horsepower instead of economy while the compact truck segment practically disappeared... as mid-sized trucks became full size and full size became 15 mpg behemoths! Retro muscle cars became the obsession with Detroit...offering a token economy model in their lineups vs Toyota's 4-5! Even before the current crunch Toyota quietly became the worlds #1 automaker.

While I like performance cars and trucks (and hope their will always be a place for them) they can't be the focus of efforts as the domestic automakers seem to have been doing.    
Now the full burden of the new and pending 35 mpg (US) Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is forced exclusively on the already hard pressed automakers who have to change direction 180 degrees.

Supply and demand is no doubt part of the issue and the big oil companies love to point to "market forces" as the issue. However it's not as if their costs; wages, rents, infrastructure, etc., go up proportinally through this (as Exxon records a $41 billion profit...up from the previous record $40 B) and each increase does seem to go straight to the corporate bottom line! As domestic refining capacty (hardly added to as of late) limitiations are often cited as a contributing issue regardless of actual foreign (or domestic) oil supplies...one wonders why it's so difficult to re-invest some of the $41 B into refining capacity? It's almost as if they didn't want to for some reason?  

Doug

[Benz Dr.]

Using this way of thinking, I wonder what our great grand parents thought when the arrival of the auto doomed the horse. What were they to do with all those outdated hitching posts and livery stables?
One area takes over from another just as one invention makes all that before obsolete.
 
3,000 years ago the men of that time were instructed to re-dig the wells of their fore fathers. Maybe we should that too.....

[seattle_Jerry]

I think the difference is that America was still young and big business didn't have a share of those hitching posts. Nor did the hitching posts generate a lot of profit.

Frankly I'm not feeling the gas prices because I drive a Scion that gets 30+ mpg.

2 things need to happen to fix our traffic and fuel problems and they likely never will because it would be political suicide.

1. Tax gas up to European levels
2. Make 2 or 3 out of 4 highway lanes HOV(allow super fuel efficient cars with one driver)

Once driving alone in a gas guzzler becomes supremely unattractive, our culture will change.

[glennard]

quote:Originally posted by paulr

Glennard...looks like preposterous petrol prices to me.

Prime PPP!

Re: Supply and demand.  Hope the $upply of Pagoda$ doe$n't ballon, but the demand doe$. i.e. - Auto aficionados acquire good taste.  Just the opposite for energy. Hope the supply goes up and the demand goes down.

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

And now, another way of looking at things:

In 1972 when I began farming soya beans were about $6.00 pr bushel. Today, they're still $6.00 per bushel. I could by diesel fuel for .40 a gallon back then - now it's a $1.40 a litre.
Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

Dan, you must be in the wrong place at the wrong time...July soybean futures hit USD $15.51 a bushel on Friday...if someone's offering you $6 (don't care if its US or C dollars) you are being taken for a ride...they are up over $2 a bushel in the past 4 weeks, so if someone planted them, they are still growing and have taken quite a ride...time to get an armed guard on the fields.

[Benz Dr.]

That's what I like about this site - being quoted out of contex. In this case that post is over a year old or more. I'm aware of the price of beans and I wish I had some to sell.
They really were about 6.50 per bushel just a short time ago. Most of the price increase is due to a srike by farmers in Argentina and Brazil. I guess they don't pay taxes there but the government takes 25% of their crop at point of sale. I was told they wanted to increase this to 40% and every port, highway and elevator has been blocked. Now we have a weather market with a lot of the mid west under water from heavy rains. I'm just about right here with almost perfect growing conditions so far.

[thelews]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

That's what I like about this site - being quoted out of contex. In this case that post is over a year old or more.

Actually, that quote is almost 3 years old!

Jerry, you're from Seattle, right?

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.
I'm just about right here with almost perfect growing conditions so far.

...too bad you have no beans to sell!  They seem to be appreciating in value about as fast as they are growing!

Darn near everything that grows--wheat, corn, beans--is up in value!

...and when that quote was originally made, 2005, oil was about $52 a barrel, not $120 as it is today...

[Longtooth]

Gas prices?... interesting that it's finally getting into the region it probably should have already been in US... i.e. I really don't care.  Lemmee see... my wife drives an '02 SL500, I have my W113, and a '67 C20 Pick-up with a 327, Holly 4BBL, etc, high ratio rear-end that get's 10 mpg at best I think, and my old commuter ('91 Accord Coupe EX) with 268k miles on it and it still get's 21-22 mpg around town/short hops, and 27-32 mpg on any extended driving depending on how heavy my foot is.

Drive slower, keep tires properly inflated, and stay off the high accelerations if gas prices are too high for your comfort level.

I've always been interested in why Europe and the rest of the world's gas prices are 2x-4x higher than ours while we import most of the same oil they import... and besides which our own oil (non-imported) is still owned by the oil company's who sell on the world market anyway.  What's price of gas in Alaska, btw?  A lot cheaper than in the contiguous states?  Cheaper than in SF?  Not likely... same average price in Alaska as in SF ($4.60/G).. a lot cheaper in New Orleans and Houston though.... so maybe another way to save on Gas is to move to Houston or New Orleans.
 
http://www.alaskagasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

 

[philmas]

The answer is:taxes,taxes and taxes....

quote:Originally posted by Longtooth

Gas prices?... interesting that it's finally getting into the region it probably should have already been in US... i.e. I really don't care.  Lemmee see... my wife drives an '02 SL500, I have my W113, and a '67 C20 Pick-up with a 327, Holly 4BBL, etc, high ratio rear-end that get's 10 mpg at best I think, and my old commuter ('91 Accord Coupe EX) with 268k miles on it and it still get's 21-22 mpg around town/short hops, and 27-32 mpg on any extended driving depending on how heavy my foot is.

Drive slower, keep tires properly inflated, and stay off the high accelerations if gas prices are too high for your comfort level.

I've always been interested in why Europe and the rest of the world's gas prices are 2x-4x higher than ours while we import most of the same oil they import... and besides which our own oil (non-imported) is still owned by the oil company's who sell on the world market anyway.  What's price of gas in Alaska, btw?  A lot cheaper than in the contiguous states?  Cheaper than in SF?  Not likely... same average price in Alaska as in SF ($4.60/G).. a lot cheaper in New Orleans and Houston though.... so maybe another way to save on Gas is to move to Houston or New Orleans.
 
http://www.alaskagasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

 

[glennard]

All good comments. But, a gallon of gas or a bushel of grain or a Pagoda is still what it is.  What has happened is the value, purchasing power, worth, of the Yankee dollar(paper, not gold) has fallen off the table.  Keep the printing press full of ink--------  Soon it will take a Pagoda trunk full of paper dollars to fill a Pagoda tank.  Historically an ounce of gold has been around 10 barrels of oil (plus or minus)?

[Ziggy]

4$ a gallon gas sounds like a great deal to me.    At the moment the price in Holland is $9,45 per gallon :x

[RBurg]

DRILL HERE - DRILL NOW - PAY LESS!
Go to Hannity.com and and sign up! or Americansoulations.org
Do your part to start drilling NOW. We have the oil, lets use
our own. Not middle east.

[benzportland]

quote:Originally posted by RBurg

DRILL HERE - DRILL NOW - PAY LESS!
Go to Hannity.com and and sign up! or Americansoulations.org
Do your part to start drilling NOW. We have the oil, lets use
our own. Not middle east.

Couldn't agree more.  This is what I mean by the high cost of environmentalism.  I live in Oregon, which draws environmentalists like magnets.  I'm a native of this state and although we have always been "green" lately it has become fashionable for environmentalists to flock here and tell others what to do.  We have virtually no industry left in this state as a result.  I have some extra property along one of our rivers and I would like to drill.  I know I won't be able too most likely, as here even if there is no law currently prohibiting it, they will make one and apply it retroactively.  But, the process of trying would be highly interesting.  I read about one guy in Indiana who successfully did it in his backyard, so who knows....

[TR]

Judge -- Your comments renews my faith in Oregonians.  I too grew up in Oregon, and it was wonderful.  Ever see the old movie, “Stand by Me”?  I knew the kids in that flim, because I was one of them (the good one, naturally).

I was raised about 20 miles from Roseburg, among a closely clustered group of small towns in SW Oregon, all of which were based on natural resource industries.  Those little towns, at that time, formed a reasonably prosperous community where mill workers had real family wage jobs that allowed them to send their kids to the state’s universities.  Those jobs are gone now.  Americans still need & use the products that came from that area; now we just get most of them from our very good neighbor & friends to the north.

The small and then-healthy community where I grew up in SW Oregon now makes Appalachia look good in terms of economic opportunity for the young people who remain.  And for those who do stay their primary career choice is indeed sad (not to mention illegal).  I find the current situation in much of rural Oregon to be a very gloomy state of affairs.  As you say, the cost of environmentalism can be high; very high I think.

But on the bright side, some spots in the state are now prettier than ever.  So my wife and I may now enjoy the somewhat improved scenery if & when are we are able to mindlessly breeze past those once prosperous, but now suffering, little towns.  Also Portland still has some of the finest restaurants to be found everywhere; and we continue to enjoy the Portland Symphony immensely!

Couldn't agree more.  This is what I mean by the high cost of environmentalism.  I live in Oregon, which draws environmentalists like magnets.  I'm a native of this state and although we have always been "green" lately it has become fashionable for environmentalists to flock here and tell others what to do.  We have virtually no industry left in this state as a result.  I have some extra property along one of our rivers and I would like to drill.  I know I won't be able too most likely, as here even if there is no law currently prohibiting it, they will make one and apply it retroactively.  But, the process of trying would be highly interesting.  I read about one guy in Indiana who successfully did it in his backyard, so who knows....
[/quote]

[dseretakis]

Agreed.  It's about time we face the music.  Gas in europe has been around $4 per gallon for nearly 15 years.  They dealt with it, why shouldn't we.  We are not special.  

quote:Originally posted by Longtooth

Gas prices?... interesting that it's finally getting into the region it probably should have already been in US... i.e. I really don't care.  Lemmee see... my wife drives an '02 SL500, I have my W113, and a '67 C20 Pick-up with a 327, Holly 4BBL, etc, high ratio rear-end that get's 10 mpg at best I think, and my old commuter ('91 Accord Coupe EX) with 268k miles on it and it still get's 21-22 mpg around town/short hops, and 27-32 mpg on any extended driving depending on how heavy my foot is.

Drive slower, keep tires properly inflated, and stay off the high accelerations if gas prices are too high for your comfort level.

I've always been interested in why Europe and the rest of the world's gas prices are 2x-4x higher than ours while we import most of the same oil they import... and besides which our own oil (non-imported) is still owned by the oil company's who sell on the world market anyway.  What's price of gas in Alaska, btw?  A lot cheaper than in the contiguous states?  Cheaper than in SF?  Not likely... same average price in Alaska as in SF ($4.60/G).. a lot cheaper in New Orleans and Houston though.... so maybe another way to save on Gas is to move to Houston or New Orleans.
 
http://www.alaskagasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

 

[benzportland]

quote:Originally posted by TR

Judge -- Your comments renews my faith in Oregonians.  I too grew up in Oregon, and it was wonderful.  Ever see the old movie, “Stand by Me”?  I knew the kids in that flim, because I was one of them (the good one, naturally).

I was raised about 20 miles from Roseburg, among a closely clustered group of small towns in SW Oregon, all of which were based on natural resource industries.  Those little towns, at that time, formed a reasonably prosperous community where mill workers had real family wage jobs that allowed them to send their kids to the state’s universities.  Those jobs are gone now.  Americans still need & use the products that came from that area; now we just get most of them from our very good neighbor & friends to the north.

The small and then-healthy community where I grew up in SW Oregon now makes Appalachia look good in terms of economic opportunity for the young people who remain.  And for those who do stay their primary career choice is indeed sad (not to mention illegal).  I find the current situation in much of rural Oregon to be a very gloomy state of affairs.  As you say, the cost of environmentalism can be high; very high I think.

But on the bright side, some spots in the state are now prettier than ever.  So my wife and I may now enjoy the somewhat improved scenery if & when are we are able to mindlessly breeze past those once prosperous, but now suffering, little towns.  Also Portland still has some of the finest restaurants to be found everywhere; and we continue to enjoy the Portland Symphony immensely!

Yep I am familiar with that area and it is suffering greatly now, and has been since the early 80's.  I am thinking of Winston and Myrtle Creek, where the median income is 30k per year per household and 14 percent are below poverty and living in LBJ's "great society."  That shows crystal clear how much "blue states" care about their local communities.  In the meantime, Portland is run by children who want to ban motor vehicles completely so "their" city (cuz it ain't ours anymore) seems cool and hip, and in their minds progressive  :?:

[benzportland]

quote:Originally posted by dseretakis

Agreed.  It's about time we face the music.  Gas in europe has been around $4 per gallon for nearly 15 years.  They dealt with it, why shouldn't we.  We are not special.

Everyone pays the same for crude.  Some pay more because they choose to tax it higher.  USA special?  Yes, looking at our history I think so....

[TR]

You nailed it, in both responses.  First, the exact area in SW Oregon.  And second, that people "elect" (my interpretation) what they pay for fuel and many other things.  Much of it, IMO, has to do with the government, and accompanying tax structures, people decide to live within and to accept.  It's all about collective choice.  Although I'd be happy to be proven wrong about that...

quote:Originally posted by benzportland

quote:Originally posted by TR

Judge -- Your comments renews my faith in Oregonians.  I too grew up in Oregon, and it was wonderful.  Ever see the old movie, “Stand by Me”?  I knew the kids in that flim, because I was one of them (the good one, naturally).

I was raised about 20 miles from Roseburg, among a closely clustered group of small towns in SW Oregon, all of which were based on natural resource industries.  Those little towns, at that time, formed a reasonably prosperous community where mill workers had real family wage jobs that allowed them to send their kids to the state’s universities.  Those jobs are gone now.  Americans still need & use the products that came from that area; now we just get most of them from our very good neighbor & friends to the north.

The small and then-healthy community where I grew up in SW Oregon now makes Appalachia look good in terms of economic opportunity for the young people who remain.  And for those who do stay their primary career choice is indeed sad (not to mention illegal).  I find the current situation in much of rural Oregon to be a very gloomy state of affairs.  As you say, the cost of environmentalism can be high; very high I think.

But on the bright side, some spots in the state are now prettier than ever.  So my wife and I may now enjoy the somewhat improved scenery if & when are we are able to mindlessly breeze past those once prosperous, but now suffering, little towns.  Also Portland still has some of the finest restaurants to be found everywhere; and we continue to enjoy the Portland Symphony immensely!

quote:
Yep I am familiar with that area and it is suffering greatly now, and has been since the early 80's.  I am thinking of Winston and Myrtle Creek, where the median income is 30k per year per household and 14 percent are below poverty and living in LBJ's "great society."  That shows crystal clear how much "blue states" care about their local communities.  In the meantime, Portland is run by children who want to ban motor vehicles completely so "their" city (cuz it ain't ours anymore) seems cool and hip, and in their minds progressive  :?:

[glennard]

Glennard's 'First step' to the oil crisis.  Immediately build enough nuclear plants to replace all power plants burning oil.  Refining crude into power plant fuel is idiotic.  We are better served by refining crude into value added products and transportation fuels.  Backing out the millions of gallons/day of fuel oil being burned in central stations would drop oil back well below $100/barrel.