Author Topic: Throwing in towel - need some help! (Florida, or greater southeast)  (Read 1251 times)

Jack the Knife

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With my house soon coming up for sale, I need to get along with my project. At this point, I need to:
- reinstall cabin portion of the wiring harness
- put the dash back together
- reinstall driveshaft
- install the new brake lines
- 're-activate' the car after its long time of sitting
- swap some crusty hardware for new things that I have

It's the final touches, and it seems trivial, but I am tired of working in my 10x20' semi-enclosed carport in 100F heat. Anyone who has worked beneath the dash on these knows. Being 6'4 and 235 doesn't help.

I could ship it further, if anyone knows anyone who knows these cars, is available, and can put it back together. I just can't have all this stuff all over the place while showing the house.
1964 230SL "Blue Note" -- #009785
2015 G550 "Milk Truck"

Cees Klumper

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Pierre Hedary in Titusville.
Only 80 miles from Vero Beach.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8 being restored father/son project
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
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Raymond

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I agree on Hedary.  The only problem is he's slammed for months in advance.  Still, I'd call and talk to him.  If he's not an option, Bud's Benz in Douglasville, Georgia does excellent work and is a regular supporter of our Pagoda SL Group.  Whether you're just looking for roadworthy or a Concours level David Latham and his team can handle it.
Perhaps, if you decide to go to Bud's you can combine it with a trip to PagodaFest in Knoxville.   ;)
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

merrill

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Jack the knife
i hear ya,  its been so humid in Austin that i have not done any vehicle projects this summer.

hope you find a shop that can help you out!
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

FourthSL

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You could try European Starr Auto in Sarasota FL. I have used them for several years to care for my 1969 280SL. I find them very knowledgeable and helpful. You could start by phoning Joe Serrone (the manager) at 941-809-4434. Hope this helps.
1969 280SL (2021……….)
2004 500SL (2004-2016)
1969 280SL (1988-1992)
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Jack the Knife

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Pierre Hedary in Titusville.
Only 80 miles from Vero Beach.

I agree on Hedary.  The only problem is he's slammed for months in advance.  Still, I'd call and talk to him.  If he's not an option, Bud's Benz in Douglasville, Georgia does excellent work and is a regular supporter of our Pagoda SL Group.  Whether you're just looking for roadworthy or a Concours level David Latham and his team can handle it.
Perhaps, if you decide to go to Bud's you can combine it with a trip to PagodaFest in Knoxville.   ;)

I wish Hedary and I could get along, but I had a rather abrasive interaction with him a few years ago and it left me cold on him. I feel he was also looking in my pockets. I'll give Bud's a try.

You could try European Starr Auto in Sarasota FL. I have used them for several years to care for my 1969 280SL. I find them very knowledgeable and helpful. You could start by phoning Joe Serrone (the manager) at 941-809-4434. Hope this helps.

I'll give them a call. Great excuse to go to Palm Avenue Deli again, too. :^)

1964 230SL "Blue Note" -- #009785
2015 G550 "Milk Truck"

mdsalemi

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I wish Hedary and I could get along, but I had a rather abrasive interaction with him a few years ago and it left me cold on him. I feel he was also looking in my pockets. I'll give Bud's a try.

I'll give them a call. Great excuse to go to Palm Avenue Deli again, too. :^)

Everyone worthy of consideration already has a shop full of work, so you simply must get to the back of the line. Doesn't matter where. Nobody is sitting around.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
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john.mancini

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A few years ago I found a really nice 65 230SL, 4 speed. Perfect body, never hit, never rusted. Extremely original. I decided to pull the engine and send it to Metric Motors for a total rebuild. I also removed everything from under the hood  for refurbishing. But, I did not want to put the car back together myself. Arthritis has made it difficult to crawl around these old cars anymore. I called Pierre Hedary. Pierre offered to come to my home in Venice, Florida to inspect this 230SL. After driving 3 hours from Titusville, Pierre found the car to be exceptional and told me he would be happy to put the car back together. He was extremely cordial, very knowledgeable and incredibly busy. We shipped the car, rebuilt engine and all other parts to Pierre. About 12 months later my car was returned in “as-new” condition. Pierre did a great job and at a reasonable price. I know there are some comments out there about Pierre being difficult to work with, but I felt compelled to write about the wonderful experience I had with Pierre.
John
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
98 911 cab
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Rothko

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I've had Pierre come to my house to work on my 280SL, and he did an amazing job, at a very very reasonable price.  I also thought that he is very knowledgeable and cordial.  And I know that he is very busy. 

Just recently I had a small problem with starting my car, and I emailed him about it and he promptly emailed me back.

If I every have a need for major work on my car, I will be shipping it to Pierre to do the work.

250PWC

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I also wanted to acknowledge Pierre as a professional and polite individual when dealing with him. He has always taken care of my 250 SL and my 560 SL and response was very timely without fail. I just spoke to him last week and he’s extremely busy and not taking new clients for 18 months. I have scheduled a service date with him in the future to service my 250 SL as he has been extremely busy.

Pierre is a gentleman and a knowledgeable source of information for classic Mercedes-Benz cars
1968 250SL
1988 Ferrari 328 GTS

Jack the Knife

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I also wanted to acknowledge Pierre as a professional and polite individual when dealing with him. He has always taken care of my 250 SL and my 560 SL and response was very timely without fail. I just spoke to him last week and he’s extremely busy and not taking new clients for 18 months. I have scheduled a service date with him in the future to service my 250 SL as he has been extremely busy.

Pierre is a gentleman and a knowledgeable source of information for classic Mercedes-Benz cars

I don't want to bring controversy or problems to this forum or derail my own thread, but 10 of your 17 posts are hyping up Pierre and frankly I still just don't see it. The guy was an absolute buffoon when I spoke to him. I don't care how popular he gets on YouTube or whatever. If I were to write an SNL skit of a high-browing 'car guy' then I'd cast him as the perfect method actor for the lead role. The stupid and preposterous crap I heard deriding BMW owners (which had nothing to do with our conversation about rebuilding an axle I bought), people who modify their cars even with electronic ignitions, the absolute perfection of all vintage Mercedes, etc. lowered my IQ by like ten points at least and I still haven't recovered like two years later. Back in March of '23 he quoted $9000 for an axle rebuild. He also wanted $1800 for bushings and mounts. That is ridiculous. I have harsher words even but they're not appropriate for this forum.

I can be not-the-easiest to get along with either, but it's like he was trying to be deliberately unlikable. If you don't want my business, just say no.

Everyone worthy of consideration already has a shop full of work, so you simply must get to the back of the line. Doesn't matter where. Nobody is sitting around.
Michael, I appreciate your help from time to time, but your comment is not helping.

You could try European Starr Auto in Sarasota FL. I have used them for several years to care for my 1969 280SL. I find them very knowledgeable and helpful. You could start by phoning Joe Serrone (the manager) at 941-809-4434. Hope this helps.
Starr might be the solution here, sent them some pictures and they said it would be no sweat but they want to see the car in person first. We're figuring it out since I'm directly across the state. Hopefully this works out.
1964 230SL "Blue Note" -- #009785
2015 G550 "Milk Truck"

250PWC

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Pierre doesn’t respond to your your comments and allegations. He does read the threads on the pagoda form.
1968 250SL
1988 Ferrari 328 GTS

rwmastel

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It would be more appropriate if everyone posted their personal vendor experiences in this forum.  It's a reference for people in need.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?board=21.0

Regarding this thread, JTK is "looking for anyone who knows these cars, is available, and can put it back together."  It doesn't have to devolve into taking sides about a vendor.  If you know a resource, then please share.  JTK can select from the options kindly offered by members.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
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mdsalemi

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Excuse me, Jack! My comment is indeed helping. It is setting the record straight that what you’re looking for is impossible, or close to it.  Someone with the skills to put your car back together is not sitting around waiting for anyone to walk in the door. So expectations of immediate assistance are simply off base, out of line and searching for a unicorn. There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but understand that there are no unicorns. There are no people with the skills you need, in Florida, or anywhere near Florida, that will take your car in today and start working on it tomorrow. Or, even with any timing somewhat similar.

So my assistance and help is this: Understand reality. You need to wait your turn even when you do find somebody that will work with you.

You do not need to throw your hands up in frustration. There are many of us who have been at this game with the Pagodas for an exceedingly long time. We have waited our turn for quality service. We have waited our turn for restoration. Things have always taken longer. Nothing happens very fast. Everybody is busy. One just may have to wait their turn.

Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Jack the Knife

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Excuse me, Jack! My comment is indeed helping. It is setting the record straight that what you’re looking for is impossible, or close to it.  Someone with the skills to put your car back together is not sitting around waiting for anyone to walk in the door. So expectations of immediate assistance are simply off base, out of line and searching for a unicorn. There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but understand that there are no unicorns. There are no people with the skills you need, in Florida, or anywhere near Florida, that will take your car in today and start working on it tomorrow. Or, even with any timing somewhat similar.

So my assistance and help is this: Understand reality. You need to wait your turn even when you do find somebody that will work with you.

You do not need to throw your hands up in frustration. There are many of us who have been at this game with the Pagodas for an exceedingly long time. We have waited our turn for quality service. We have waited our turn for restoration. Things have always taken longer. Nothing happens very fast. Everybody is busy. One just may have to wait their turn.

Yeah, no. You have a tendency to read way into posts while simultaneously being very literalist and get a bit off-base. Nowhere did I expect for someone to drop everything and answer my beck and call like a damsel in distress. I want you to point out to me now where I said I "want someone to take my car today and start working on it tomorrow". Why would you think I am not willing to "wait my turn"? Why are you making all these assumptions about my own timeline?

Like what's your problem, really?

And if I say you're not helping me, you're not, period. That's not up for you to decide. Keep it to yourself.
1964 230SL "Blue Note" -- #009785
2015 G550 "Milk Truck"

SwissCheese

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I think by the time most of you are done reading this email, you will know who this is.

Here is the email chain between Jack and jesse, my foreman.

Jesse did quote jack about 9,000 for parts and labor. We simply assumed he wanted us to do the installation from start to finish.

here is his initial email to us:
Good morning Jesse,

My name is Jackson and I’m the proud owner of a ‘64 230SL that I intend to enter in this year’s Panamericana Rally. You all came with a glowing recommendation from a guy on the W113 forum. I’ve been doing numerous modifications ahead of that time. Notably, I am swapping my rear end to a 4.08 LSD that is discs instead of drums. I have it sitting at a crate at my home in Vero. Since you all have expertise in Mercedes swing axles, I was wondering if we might work together to refurbish this axle, as well as some other projects for my car. I tried calling to leave a VM but the box is full.

Here’s a short list of my mods I’m working on or have installed:
Mechatronik (KW) shocks and springs
123 Ignition
Zimber (300SL) wheel
15x7 Rudge-type alloy wheels (in production)
Getrag 265-5 (dogleg) swap kit is on the way
Poly bushings all around
27.5mm sway bar from Addco
Quicksilver exhaust (in production)

I’ve also got Renntech in mind for my custom header project but I’d be interested in alternatives. They expressed interest but told me right away it would be expensive.

Also, I am interested in a 250SE/SL cylinder head, if you have one anywhere for sale.

Jackson


Jesse read his email and told me he wanted to build a heavily modified car.
 here was jesse's response:

jesse vongnaraj <jesse.vongnaraj@pierrehedaryandco.com>
Mar 7, 2023, 10:39 AM
to Jackson

Good morning Jackson
Unfortunately we will not be performing modification on 113 chassis cars, but we are willing to rebuild and install a swing axle for you.

We have sources for a cylinder head, are you looking for new or used, complete or bare casting


After this, jack says:
Fantastic — used is fine, and I’d love if you’d port/polish. How much?

How much to rebuild the axle?

And jesse responds:
We do not do modifications to the cylinder heads.
We need to ask our machinist for the cost of that, but we can get them. Do you want a refurbished head?

We need 40 hours at 180/hr to rebuild and reinstall axle, parts are going to be around 1800, thats all the axle mounts, trailing arm bushings, spring pads etc.

My personal commentary: jesse likely assumed jack only had some of the rubber parts. because this was a total rebuild, items such as pinion bearings, wheel bearing kits, brake parts and small additional items like parking brake cables may have been needed, since the axle condition was unknown.
Jesse was instructed by me to quote 40 hrs so we would be able to cover our selves in case something was wrong after installation. While i do not usually request so much up front, I know when i need to ask for additional labor hours in case something goes wrong.

Jack then responded:
It doesn’t need to be refurbished if the machinist isn’t doing a port and polish, I can do that.

I don’t need an installation, the axle is in a crate in my house. I can send it to you all ready to go. I can supply my own bushings for the trailing arms, as I am converting to polyurethane bushings as opposed to rubber. DB Depot charges like $500 for a complete axle rebuild kit. I want you all to make money but 1800 seems high for consumable parts on these. I also get that Pierre is talented — I saw his article in The Star — but 9000 for an axle rebuild seems very, very, very high, a bit too high even despite my willingness to patronize local talent.

Well, maybe it’s not meant to be! Thank you anyway.


My personal commentary:
I never spoke with jack, but it seems like he was offended by our unwillingness to perform repairs on a road racing car. I do find his description of me quite funny- I have not been called a buffoon before. I suppose being a buffoon is better than being a liar. Your statements about me do not upset me. I would not describe myself as difficult to work with. I know I can be hard to get a hold of sometimes, but I am here working, doing my best, trying my hardest and trying to improve my knowledge of these cars.

On a personal note, youtube has not gone to my head. Trust me when I say I get up early, stay at my shop most of the day and come home after 9 pm. All of us work very hard and all of us take a lot of pride in our work. I could care less about any sort of youtube presence. As far as my complaints about certain modifications go, I dislike these things because they are not reliable and they are not built to MB standards. Most of the w113s i service can be driven anywhere, anytime, because I respect and rely on the work of the engineers who built these cars. I believe no one can out-engineer the great minds who designed the pre-1990 Mercedes product.

There are a lot of people out there who don't like me, but that's ok. I am not afraid of being disliked. I am afraid of people perceiving me as dishonest or incompetent.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2025, 19:27:08 by SwissCheese »

rwmastel

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Nowhere did I expect for someone to drop everything and answer my beck and call like a damsel in distress. I want you to point out to me now where I said I "want someone to take my car today and start working on it tomorrow". Why would you think I am not willing to "wait my turn"? Why are you making all these assumptions about my own timeline?
In your original post, you specified "is available".  I don't know how anyone would interpret that other than "has available time to start now".

That being said, if members are kind enough to provide a number of contacts, then I'm sure you're more than capable of putting on your Big Boy Pants, making some calls, and selecting the best option for your self.  Vendors will set expectations quickly enough, nobody here needs to do it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 02:31:18 by rwmastel »
Rodd

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1966 230SL auto "Italian"

john.mancini

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Re: Throwing in towel - need some help! (Florida, or greater southeast)
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2025, 16:57:53 »
I really debated whether or not to chime in again. Jackson, I think that you’ve gotten some good Florida referrals from the W113.org members. This W113 hobby needs people who are passionate about their Pagodas. People like Michael contribute so much to this forum and to the massive interest in these great cars. We especially need people like Pierre Hedary, who is possibly the most knowledgeable MB person on the planet. I hate to see good people’s reputations ripped apart publicly.
John
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 Porsche RS60 Spyder
23 Z4M40i

Rothko

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Re: Throwing in towel - need some help! (Florida, or greater southeast)
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2025, 18:13:11 »
The last thing I want to do is stir the pot also, but when Pierre has to log in as a new user to defend his reputation, that's just not right.  Everyone is entitled to opinions, of course, and this is the Internet, so it is "caveat emptor" when I read most posts.  But we should all try to keep things above-board and it is disappointing when these forums are used in a way that the subject of a review has to defend himself.

I really hope that Pierre will continue to come and post on these forums, as I likewise believe that he has a super wealth of knowledge about these cars that we all enjoy and we could really benefit from his experience.


Benz Dr.

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Re: Throwing in towel - need some help! (Florida, or greater southeast)
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2025, 22:17:59 »
I'll keep this post short.

I don't know Pierre nor have I ever talked to him, but I did email him a couple of years ago but received no reply. Perhaps he didn't see my letter of introduction, saw me as a competitor, or just didn't want to answer. If he reads all of our posts, ( very doubtful he does that ) he should have seen me as a colleague. We share very similar philosophies but I really don't follow what he's up to these days. There are plenty of people around who know old MB cars but they're not shop owners or specialists.

This place found itself in some rather deep doo-doo a few years back for bashing vendors so I would council a bit of caution in that regard. Posters were looking for people to take their side which is NOT what we should be doing. Trust me, after close to 50 years working on these old cars, I've pretty much seen it all. 

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn
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1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
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1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
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mdsalemi

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Re: Throwing in towel - need some help! (Florida, or greater southeast)
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2025, 14:04:18 »
Jack, once again:

In your original post, you said, and this is the key, is available. EVERYONE is available for those willing to wait their turn. When AlexD had significant damage to his car in the Raleigh NC area a few years ago, he was in a quandary: trying to find a [somewhat] local place to do the body work. What he found were several, but they all had very long waiting lists, indifferent to the job because it was hard and they didn't need it, some wouldn't deal with insurance and others wouldn't provide a quote--just a monthly billing. There were additional unsuitable complexities. None of this was acceptable to AlexD so I suggested one I had experience with: Motorwerks in Commerce, MI. So, after having Motorwerks from Michigan come and inspect the car in NC, he sent it to them. They provided a timeline, were able to fit it in, in six months, provide a comprehensive written estimate suitable for the insurance company. Sometimes you need to cast the net far and wide, and re-set your expectations. It's likely that the best solution for you isn't in Florida.

You should be advised that you violated the rules of the forum. Dan Caron suggests that vendor bashing was problematic at one point. Rothko wisely suggests it's not right that Pierre must create a membership in which to defend himself.  But here it is: under the headline for forum "Vendor and eBay Experiences", it's quite clear: We do not tolerate defamatory remarks Yet, here's what you said: The guy was an absolute buffoon when I spoke to him...stupid and preposterous crap I heard...lowered my IQ by like ten points at least and I still haven't recovered like two years later... That's not acceptable forum behavior here. We has a group, our entity treasures the knowledge of people like Pierre, and value him as a resource, even if he doesn't come here often. Few of the experts do.

In addition you had thinly disguised insults to me, and to another member who you basically suggested that the only posts he made (your post on this is gone) were in support of Pierre.

There are many people here who have used Pierre successfully. Other have perhaps inquired and chose another route. Clearly you won't go back to Pierre, and that's your choice.

Rodd Masteller says it best: you're more than capable of putting on your Big Boy Pants, making some calls, and selecting the best option for yourself. Call Bud's. Call Motorwerks. Call European Starr Auto. Call Scott Grundfor. Call Silver Star Restorations. Call Oldtimer Restoration Center. Call Paul Russell. There are others. More research will yield plenty of resources around the country.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

 

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