Author Topic: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113  (Read 1382 times)

lpeterssen

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Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« on: December 28, 2023, 10:59:45 »
Dear friends

After looking at some later W114 Mercedes wiring diagrams as well as w116 came to the conclusion that it will be not so hard to have intermittent wiper on a w111 and W113.

This later one w113 will require to change the 4 prong wiper motor to the 5 pin version used on w111 to make it feasible.

The modification will fit better any w113 or W111 from year 1967 onwards since the steering column is made for the deeper steering wheels that match the steering column switches with three wiper position as seen on w114/116.

The modification will also be posible for those with earlier cars that used the simple thin steering switch but will require the custom assembly of steering switch usingbthe internals of a new model, keeping the original stalk.

I will describe here after in general terms what will required to complete this job.

1. Interval timed wiper relay
==================

We may use one unit coming from a later w114/116 or w123. Its cheap and is frequently listed on ebay for 15$.  Will provide part number on a later post.
The interval wiper relay has a 8 pin connection. So we have to source a connector for that with the special cap that allows to fit the whole to a standard mercedes metallic bracket like the one used on w108 to fix the 12 pin connector that feeds rear wiring harness at driver footwell.

The relay can be easily place next to the 2 12 pin connectors that we have under steering column.

2. Steering Combination switch
====================

We need to source a combination switch with the wiper interval function.  Those are the ones that come with three speed marking (I=intermittent, II= low speed, III= high speed). Need to investigate with any fellow with access to Mercedes part number system which is that steering multiswicth used on w114/116 which has the shape that resembles the one used regularly on w113.

There is a steering multi switch listed on ebay frequently for w123 that fits but has not the exact era look, which is very cheap to source new for about 80$.

The important thing is to have a multi switch with 14 pin connector.

3. source 14 pin female connector.
=====================
This one to replace our actual 12 pin connector below the steering column.


Will post later the diagrams involved so that we all end this project.

Let me know if there is interest to continue.

Best regards
Eng. Leonardo Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Sead

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2024, 18:38:34 »
You can not use a turn signal switch from any other model on W113.

And what is meant with" simple thin steering switch" on early cars?

Turn signal switches are identical on all Pagodas except chrome stalk is been changend (longer and bent) along with new steering column introduced with late 250SL:..

btw., here is a ready to go system: https://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/Wisch-%20Waschrelais.htm

regards
Sead
1964 230SL

awolff280sl

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2024, 20:44:37 »
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

mdsalemi

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2024, 22:04:38 »
While I never intentionally drive in the rain, sometimes you get caught...and when I do get caught it's generally torrential. When I drove home from the Pinehurst Concours this past May, it was the worst 2.5 hours driving ever; nearly torrential the entire drive. I was miserable.

I wasn't thinking about intermittent wipers, but I sure wanted ones that went like twice as fast. Anyone hear of a turbo option?? (BTW: I'm not kidding...)
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

WRe

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2024, 07:17:56 »
Hi,
there is another cheap and easy solution  discussed here:
https://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/threads/einfache-billige-nachrüstung-von-wischerintervallschaltung-und-wisch-wasch-automatik.3694/

I use it for years and it works perfect.
...WRe

- Parts
Use a VW (191 955 529, no.72) or Hella (004876-00) relay, found in Golf and Passat

- Connections
Connect contact 31 on the VW relay to contact 85 on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (ground)
Connect contact 15 on the VW relay to contact 56b on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (ignition plus)
Connect contact 53 on the VW relay to contact 56 on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (to wiper motor)
Connect contact L on the VW relay to the contact on the washer fluid pump that comes from the steering column switch, i.e. not to the ground contact.

- Function
1. Switch on interval mode:
Briefly tapping the steering column switch forward for < 1 second (as if you wanted to activate the windshield washer pump) starts the windshield wiper interval switching.
2. Switch off interval mode:
The windshield wiper now runs in intermittent operation at a constant interval until you briefly press the steering column switch forward for < 1 second.
3. Wipe/wash operation with windshield wiper running, approx. 2-3 wipes:
Press the steering column switch forward for at least 2 seconds, i.e. activate the windshield washer fluid pump, as before, then release it depending on the length of time.
The windshield washer pump delivers wiper fluid as long as you press forward, as before, the windshield wipers switch on and wipe 2-3 times after releasing the steering column lever.

lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2024, 11:10:44 »
Excellent suggestion, I like it

lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2024, 11:25:58 »
You can not use a turn signal switch from any other model on W113.

And what is meant with" simple thin steering switch" on early cars?

Turn signal switches are identical on all Pagodas except chrome stalk is been changend (longer and bent) along with new steering column introduced with late 250SL:..

btw., here is a ready to go system: https://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/Wisch-%20Waschrelais.htm

regards
Sead

Dear Sead

I know you are an expert on repairing this old steering wheel multifunction switches, but of course the steering wheel can be changed.  You just have to be handy and like do it yourself projects.

The w123 multifunction switch seems to me that fits on later cars, I will do the test on my own pagado 250SL 1968.

Nevertheless the objective of this post was to see the need for that functionality of having intermittent wiper relays.

The w123 steering switch has 14 pins, so for someone not handy, this project is not feasible; but if you like wiring harnesses as I do, and frequently do service wiring harnesses for others, changing the configuration from 12 pin to 14 and re-maping the whole thing is not a rocket science project.  So it’s possible.

This mod in that way is not for everyone, of course….. but could be for people that do not want to pay the sky high prices involved in buying a new original steering wheel switch for w113 which is around 750$ if theirs get inoperative.  The w123 steering wheel switch cost only 75$ new.

So there are projects for all possible tastes.

Regarding the ready to go solution for which you copied the link, I just wrote Mr. wolfgang to buy one of them, since if everything in your pagoda is working fine related the steering multifunction switch, then the link suggested by you is the way to go since involves much less modification and is a plug an play solution, much better than the one I had in mind…..

So this is better as you suggest:

btw., here is a ready to go system: https://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/Wisch-%20Waschrelais.htm

Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 11:44:10 by lpeterssen »

lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2024, 11:32:09 »
Hi,
there is another cheap and easy solution  discussed here:
https://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/threads/einfache-billige-nachrüstung-von-wischerintervallschaltung-und-wisch-wasch-automatik.3694/

I use it for years and it works perfect.
...WRe



- Parts
Use a VW (191 955 529, no.72) or Hella (004876-00) relay, found in Golf and Passat

- Connections
Connect contact 31 on the VW relay to contact 85 on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (ground)
Connect contact 15 on the VW relay to contact 56b on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (ignition plus)
Connect contact 53 on the VW relay to contact 56 on the pagoda windshield wiper relay (to wiper motor)
Connect contact L on the VW relay to the contact on the washer fluid pump that comes from the steering column switch, i.e. not to the ground contact.

- Function
1. Switch on interval mode:
Briefly tapping the steering column switch forward for < 1 second (as if you wanted to activate the windshield washer pump) starts the windshield wiper interval switching.
2. Switch off interval mode:
The windshield wiper now runs in intermittent operation at a constant interval until you briefly press the steering column switch forward for < 1 second.
3. Wipe/wash operation with windshield wiper running, approx. 2-3 wipes:
Press the steering column switch forward for at least 2 seconds, i.e. activate the windshield washer fluid pump, as before, then release it depending on the length of time.
The windshield washer pump delivers wiper fluid as long as you press forward, as before, the windshield wipers switch on and wipe 2-3 times after releasing the steering column lever.

Dear Wre

I like very much your suggestion and find it very practical and cost effective.   Will buy some on these relays and implement that in my own personal cars. 

Thanks for giving your ideas again.

Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com

lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2024, 11:35:14 »
While I never intentionally drive in the rain, sometimes you get caught...and when I do get caught it's generally torrential. When I drove home from the Pinehurst Concours this past May, it was the worst 2.5 hours driving ever; nearly torrential the entire drive. I was miserable.

I wasn't thinking about intermittent wipers, but I sure wanted ones that went like twice as fast. Anyone hear of a turbo option?? (BTW: I'm not kidding...)

Dear mdsalemi

What you mean by wiper turbo option? To make them run twice then regular maximum speed?

Regards
Lp

JamesL

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2024, 12:39:04 »
Someone in Germany was also selling an amended (but original looking) relay that was progammable. Wolfgang at www.w113.eu

https://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/programmierbarer_intervallschalter.htm
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2024, 18:10:33 »
Yes, I just contacted him, is the same person.  But is only selling to shipping addresses in EU.

WRe

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2024, 07:42:13 »
Hi,
there are also cheap "programmable" relays available which can be used:

Parts:
- VW 35795531, no.99
- Renault 7700811853
- Meyle 1008300014
- Hella 5WG003620-09

Function
Switch to interval and switch off again as soon as the windshield wiper starts. After the time that should pass between 2 wipers has elapsed, switch on the interval.

Connections
For example see att. diagram.

..WRe


lpeterssen

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2024, 11:27:14 »
Hi,
there are also cheap "programmable" relays available which can be used:

Parts:
- VW 35795531, no.99
- Renault 7700811853
- Meyle 1008300014
- Hella 5WG003620-09

Function
Switch to interval and switch off again as soon as the windshield wiper starts. After the time that should pass between 2 wipers has elapsed, switch on the interval.

Connections
For example see att. diagram.

..WRe

Dear Wre

Many thanks for this wiring diagram.  Will use it ASAP on personal projects.

How do you manage to know when the wiper arms are parked in cars like w113 which have motors with only 4 prongs (1- ground, 2- continuos t15/for parking, 3- speed I, 4 - speed II) when you use intermittent wiper relays that start counting the wait time when they get this signal from the resting position?

On w111 the motor has the fifth terminal which lets you know when motor is on resting position.  But on w113 that is not posible.

Or as I pressume in  such cars, the user should fix at will the waiting time between wipes.

Best regards
Lp

WRe

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Re: Intermitent wipers on W111 or W113
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2024, 15:15:54 »
Hi Leonardo,
you are right the "parking contact" is missing in our Pagodas. Sorry I've never tested the "programmable" solution.
...Wolfgang