Fixing the indicator stalk left indicator cancel

[Pinder]

I have an issue with the left indicator cancel caused by earlier repair. The root cause is a stripped thread on one of the two special screws that hold the Stalk to the gizmo that rotates in the housing. Sorry if I am not using the correct part names but this post is to upload pics of the mechanism for anyone else who wants to attempt a repair.

[Pinder]

This pic is of my strip thread repair attempt 2 using jbweld . Applied to the screw then held in place with vice grip. Also clamped down on the alloy part so the gap of the slot where the stalk insert is now redused. I think over time this soft metal gets wider

[ja17]

I have a box of left over parts from repairs I have done on these in the past. I probably have that part good used, if your repair fails. Also some sedans of the era used a turn signal stalk assembly with most of the parts the same (65-67 finbacks). They're not the same but most of the parts are.

[dirkbalter]

There are a pretty good instructions on the web-side from our German speaking colleagues on how to repair these.
https://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/

(If you have trouble navigating and interested, let me know and i send it to you.)

[Pinder]

Thank you Joe and Dirk for responding.

The JB weld did not hold too long.  So I am going to use a larger screw and see if that fix works better. If it does not I will reach out to you Joe if you have the metal part to which the indicator stalk attaches with the two screws.

Regards

   Pinder

[rwmastel]

I have a box of left over parts from repairs I have done on these in the past. I probably have that part good used, if your repair fails.

Group,
I remember asking many years ago about fixing the return feature on my 230SL signal stalk and being told that it is best to buy a replacement unit.  I never fixed or replaced it.  I would be very interested to learn more about what's worn in my assembly that causes the problem and how to fix it.  It seems like an assembly that can be understood by any of us mechanically minded people, even me!     Is removing the assembly from the column a straight forward (simple) process to figure out?

Hi Joe,
I would be interested in learning if you have any pieces that would help me fix my assembly.  Does having the flash-to-pass feature make things significantly more complicated?  I'll get it removed and apart, this weekend if I'm lucky, and then get back with you.

[BobH]

There's a good write up in the tech manual about removing the switch and common problems

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SteeringColumnSwitch

[rwmastel]

There's a good write up in the tech manual about removing the switch and common problems

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SteeringColumnSwitch

Sorry, got excited about an interesting post with pics and quickly replied without searching. Not following my own normal advice!!  Thank.

[dirkbalter]

Here you go. You will need a little google translate.

[Pinder]

Ok I was able to fix the issue with the loose screw by using a larger screw and grinding down the end of it so it fits the small hole in the stalk. This along with clamping the component that holds the stalk so that the loose fit is now gone (I suspect that as its a soft alloy it bends over time and use. It was a little difficult to get it all put back together but its done. I just need to install it back in the car. it appears to work find with the plastic canceling tab sticking out when turning left or right.  Main cause of failure was the loose screw and the jaws of the component that accepts the stalk being wider at the ends. I fixed both issues and it seems so much less play and appears to work as I would expect. I will install it tomorrow and report back on if it worked.

[Pinder]

Picture of the jaws and the new larger screw installed solidly.

[Pinder]

The post by Dirk is very good. It highlights all the trouble spots. But for me I had two issues. Loose/ striped screw and the widened gap the stalk end fits into.   

[Pinder]

Removing the stalk from car is relatively straight forward. (this is for my 280SL 1970)
steps are as follows.

1. Remove the under dash trim ( that is covered with vinyl in my case just to the left of the steering wheel.
2. pop of the rubber boot on end of the stalk on the steering column.
3. remove two Philips head screws that hold the stalk to the column.
4. remove the black and brown wire for the horn that attaches to the stalk base.
5. disconnect the 12 pin plug from under the dash that connects to wiring harness.
6. remove the rubber Gromet that is on on the steering column where the wires go into the steering column. It has a slit on one part so it can be removes.
7. slowly pull out the stalk brining the wiring with it and fiddle the plug end into the steer column hole. It is just small enough to be able to be removed without disassembly.

[Pinder]

Rodd

   If you disassemble just do it in good lighting and preferably wear some eye glasses (to protect your eyes from springs that tend to become projectiles) and keep track of the parts. Take lots of pictures so you know how the springs go back in.  Parts fly around. I lost the washer under the C clip and at one point lost the C clip and found it 1 hour later.  I was lucky that the black plastic cancelling cam had no wear on mine but I can see this could be an area that may wear out and prevent cancelling. Also in my case I had done an earlier repair using JB weld on the screw I now fixed properly. The JB weld failed and the fragments were interfering with the cancel of the indicator. there was also a lot of dirt and dust in the unit. Taking apart and cleaning everything should help my situation. Ill find out how well it works and will update.

from doing the disassembly and if parts available or can be repaired this is definitely a switch that can be fixed.

Regards

  Pinder

[Pinder]

Confirmed after install that the indicator stalk now works cancelling left or right automatically. All other functions like wipers and washer work.

[Pinder]

So on a recent test drive and taking notice on how the "fixed" indicator stalk works I find the cancel operation works every time and as expected. However I note that some time when I indicate left the leaver springs back up and i have to make sure i push it on purpose down all the way to hold.  THis could be wear on the cam but I did not note any wear. Or could it be i have the return springs the wrong way round. I think maybe one return spring is stronger than the other and I put them back wrong positions? my guess is that one spring should be weaker and one stronger due to gravity being factorered in? 

Any thoughts on this. or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Regards

  Pinder

[Sead]

So on a recent test drive and taking notice on how the "fixed" indicator stalk works I find the cancel operation works every time and as expected. However I note that some time when I indicate left the leaver springs back up and i have to make sure i push it on purpose down all the way to hold.  THis could be wear on the cam but I did not note any wear. Or could it be i have the return springs the wrong way round. I think maybe one return spring is stronger than the other and I put them back wrong positions? my guess is that one spring should be weaker and one stronger due to gravity being factorered in? 

Any thoughts on this. or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Regards



  Pinder

you have not repaired main issue on this stalks which is causing problem you have. Im sorry for my bad english.. see attached pictures. "swing arms" must be attached correctly using special screws. Even when their riveted base is not broken they have too much play. Cylinders on top must have perfect 90 degrees angle... Some other modyfication must be done too...
Every single indicator stalk have this issue and must be correctly fixed. Forget about reproduction stalks, they are piece of junk. I do repair on these for 250,-€ or you can buy new one from me for 550,-€ and send over your original untouched non working to me
regards

[yves]

Here some pics of the problem with the spring arms :
and an extension of the pin with a drop of bondic .... if it's needed ?

[Pinder]

Yves thanks for the post and explanation. And yes the pins do bow out a bit and I did think maybe they should be 90 degrees. With my bad eyesight i did not notice the screws were type of hex screw. I can give it a go and fix that. Im getting pretty good at removing the indicator from the car now.

  I appreciate the response.

 Regards

   Pinder

[Rahul]

If I recall correctly, a recommended fix for the bowed pins was to drill them out, tap the holes to accept an M3 or M4 screw, and to then dremel off the heads of the screws to leave just the posts.

Yves, it may very well have been your posts that covered this, the photos look familiar!

[yves]

You are right Rahul 

[yves]

Here is the link about my work on the indicator:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=30504.msg242586#msg242586

[Pinder]

Ok I have an update. on fixing the indicator so it holds in the down position.

I open the switch and corrected the condition where the rollers were a bit loose where the rivets mount to the alloy body of the switch. I didnt have any special screws to re tap and fix but I was able to get rid of the non parallel roller problem by using a dot punch to firmly fix the rollers. Yves suggested this is the problem. I also did as Joe had mentioned to cleanup the valleys in the indicator cam. I re assembled and tested it out and it works fine now.

thanks for everyone's input in getting my switch working like new.

in my car i was able to remove the switch without taking off the end of the plug. However fitting it back in I had to take the cap of the plug off but I know in the past I have done it without take the cap off.

Regards

Pinder

[Pinder]

Well,

 Any time is a good time for a test drive and an extensive test on the "Stalk". I'm happy to report that all functions works as expected, down position for left, Up for right, Washer fluid squirty thing , wipers and both speeds, auto cancel..... except nothing happens if I pull the stick towards me. I thought it is supposed to trigger high beam? or maybe not?  I do have a button next to my clutch pedal that does high beam and a blue light. But should the stalk [pulled towards the driver] engage high beam? I think it should but don't know. 1970 280SL.

on the plus side I was not distracted with indicator cancelling and it worked well and I could focus on appreciating how well the car is driving. Its not perfect but not bad at all for a 50+ year old car. Few kinks to iron out but really appreciated how well it drives. (but never having driven a new one its hard to really judge)

Regards

 Pinder

[rwmastel]

I have "flash to pass" on my Italian 230SL.  Search for that or similar terms and see if any threads discuss the years and markets that had it.

[DaveB]

Flash to pass is disconnected on US cars but can be installed.
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Lightswitch
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=554.0

[Pinder]

Thank you gents. Much appreciated.

 I read the flash to pass information on US spec cars and this feature is disabled. Which means Ill leave it as is.
Regards

 Pinder

[George Lollar]

Pinder - I believe US cars of this year did not have Flash to Pass.  George Lollar

[Pinder]

Thank you George for confirming. I appreciate your time in responding. Yes from what I've read you are right and I can finally say my indicator is working beautifully after having it taken out and worked on it around 4 times.

    to summaries all the problems that I had with my switch and fixing those did make it function like new.

    1. One striped lose screw holding the stalk to the alloy cam / metal part. (this was causing canceling issues on left turns)
    2. Where the stalk inserted into the alloy part and held on by 2 pan head screws, the gap was wider at the ends. (fixed by clamping in vice.) (this was causing the stalk to flop around and lots of play)
  3. the Roller pins were not parallel. (this was causing the indicator to not hold in the down position as the rollers riding partly on the peaks and partly on the valley of the alloy cam caused not to hold in place).

I hope that helps anyone who wants to try and fix there indicator.

Regards

  Pinder