Author Topic: Pininfarina up for auction  (Read 7366 times)

Garry

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2022, 09:25:31 »
I have always had some doubt about the shorter gear lever of the early automatic versions but note that this car has the short stick.  Makes me feel better about mine. 😎😎
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
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mdsalemi

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2022, 14:13:25 »
What would prevent some deep pocketed collector to get a solid W113 or two, and take it to a well known place to rework some of the body (not a copy of the Pininfarina, but another creation) into something new and special?

One could even take it to Atelier Bracq. Have the master rework some of his first preliminary, never-built designs. Some of the other well known carossiers probably will take in work for enough of the six figures...

Italdesign
Pininfarina
Bertone (the soon to be launched rebranding by AKKA)
Zagato
CARROZZERIA TOURING

There are a number of others, but these have "legacy" names (even if the history of them has some corporate "interruptions" so to speak) that will live on forever in the annals of world automotive history.

I'd suggest that a reasonably well sorted W113, and $500K (chump change for the super rich) might very well get the attention of at least one of these houses...
Michael Salemi
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Mike Hughes

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2022, 02:10:14 »
That's all and well, but nothing created in the present time will possess one special element:  History.   The Pininfarina 230SL comes to the party with nearly 60 years of documented history.
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66andBlue

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2022, 05:49:50 »
Another tidbit about this car:
"Straightaway the results were honored by the high-profile jury of the 1997 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, who awarded Hook’s car first place in the European sports car class. By a stroke of irony or chance, the jury members included not only former Pininfarina designer Tom Tjaarda himself but also Bruno Sacco, at the time still Mercedes-Benz Design Chief"
https://mercedesheritage.com/mercedes-heritage/the-pininfarina-230sl
Irony or chance? ???

What about this even earlier Pininfarina Mercedes 300B redesign? https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/listing/mercedes-benz-300b/

And there is a third Pininfarina/Mercedes, a 300SEL 6.3 .. but when you search for it in the Daimler-Benz Press Archive you won't find any mention or photo of it. No wonder, it is such an unappealing concoction that the current owner's girlfriend remarked: “So much money for such an ugly car!”
https://drive-my.com/mercedes-benz-300-sel-6-3-pininfarina-coupe/

Alfred
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mdsalemi

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2022, 11:29:16 »
That's all and well, but nothing created in the present time will possess one special element:  History.   The Pininfarina 230SL comes to the party with nearly 60 years of documented history.

One does not do something today like this with the expectation you will instantly create something more valuable than what you started with. I sincerely doubt that when first created those associated with it were planning on multiple auctions, owners around the world and the stand at Pebble.

You do it for the future. The original designer and most past owners and those associated with it are long gone.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
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mdsalemi

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2022, 18:21:30 »
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2022/08/03/was-this-pinin-farina-and-tom-tjaarda-designed-1960-corvair-coupe-speciale-a-foreshadowing-of-the-1965-model/

No not that Pininfarina coupe, this one!

Looks like Tom Tjaarda and Pininfarina touched another car of the era with a styling exercise.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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AdelaidePagoda

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Re:Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2022, 11:30:36 »
Today is the day ladies and gentlemen, get your bids in!

https://bid.goodingco.com/lots/view/1-67ELTH/1964-mercedes-benz-230-sl-coupe-speciale

How far over $1M will it go?
Dave Cleghorn
January 1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
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Rahul

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2022, 17:21:57 »
I thought you were bidding $10mm??  ;)
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AdelaidePagoda

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Dave Cleghorn
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johnk

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2022, 05:07:42 »
I was there and took plenty of pics. The opinion of several people there was while the interior was beautiful, the outside is very plain. No where’s the looks of our pagodas. Also it does not have the Pagoda roofline. Of course Mercedes did not want it.

To be honest in person I thought the rear looked more like a corvair than a Pagoda.
John Krystowski
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AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2022, 10:26:53 »
Agreed. It is very plain and I would gladly have a Pagoda (any model) over this car.
However from a pure collectors perspective, it does not get any rarer in the W113 world and it’s condition, and provenance, is perfect.
I can understand that it is not pure Mercedes’ so the Museum would not necessarily want to add it to their collection.
If one of you on this forum are the new owner, please keep us up to date with its ongoing maintenance and any findings you may come across.
Also your Pagoda friends would all appreciate a drive at some stage! 🙏🏻
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 12:56:40 by AdelaidePagoda »
Dave Cleghorn
January 1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

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fd-li

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2022, 12:19:45 »
The opinion of several people there was while the interior was beautiful,

Interesting opinion regarding the interior. I think there are some old photos floating around (including in the auction house listing) showing that the car initially had red rather than sand leather. At least the color of the dashboard in black appears correct.

Rahul

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2022, 14:16:56 »
For the same money you could buy 2x W113s and 2x of the far more beautifully designed 330 GT, keep a pair in the garage/museum and drive the other pair to your heart's content!


1971 280SL auto #571 over parchment

ChrisInNashville

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2022, 06:26:02 »
I’m shocked that it went for only $1.1million
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Mike Hughes

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2022, 12:48:55 »
I’m shocked that it went for only $1.1million

Likewise.  But the family must be pleased with the result, as well as the auction house, whose estimate was spot-on.

Gooding said, "In Excess of $1,000,000 Million," they didn't say how much!
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Cees Klumper

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2022, 13:32:47 »
I still think it's an insane amount of money for this car.
Cees Klumper
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Vander

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2022, 14:33:51 »
I’m shocked that it went for only $1.1million

The car actually sold for $1,215,000 USD.
1969 280SL

lreppond

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2022, 23:18:36 »
Although its interior design is brilliant, it lacks any sense of being German and is far more Italian in spirit.  I think the outside is charming, but it lacks what made the Pagoda an icon, namely it’s roof!  Beauty is not absolute but rather visceral.  How we response is completely unique. 

Like the car or not, it is a one of a kind specimen with a brilliant and well documented provenance.  And this is precisely why it sold as it did.
~Len

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ChrisInNashville

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2022, 01:26:05 »
Alas, I AM Italian ;)
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2023, 14:49:43 »
Although its interior design is brilliant, it lacks any sense of being German and is far more Italian in spirit.  I think the outside is charming, but it lacks what made the Pagoda an icon, namely it’s roof!  Beauty is not absolute but rather visceral.  How we response is completely unique. 

Like the car or not, it is a one of a kind specimen with a brilliant and well documented provenance.  And this is precisely why it sold as it did.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.
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MikeSimon

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2023, 15:27:21 »
I am German and I readily admit, that we Germans do NOT have a knack for styling. We are known for a "Teutonic" appearance in our designs. Of course, most people here are biased as far as the looks of the W113 are concerned, but from an objective point of view, it is not a beautiful car. This is very much reflected in the contemporary desire for the model as opposed to other sporty cars of the period, like the Jaguar E-type or the Alfa Romeo Spider. Not to mention the Ferrari Dino as it was in a different league, price-wise.
This may not be Pininfarina's most likeable car, but back in its time, it was (maybe still is) an exotic and perceived as great looking. The fact that "Mercedes did not want it" really means absolutely nothing. Knowing about the self-absorbed attitude about their products of Daimler Benz management at the time.
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Jack the Knife

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2023, 16:54:57 »
I am German and I readily admit, that we Germans do NOT have a knack for styling. We are known for a "Teutonic" appearance in our designs. Of course, most people here are biased as far as the looks of the W113 are concerned, but from an objective point of view, it is not a beautiful car. This is very much reflected in the contemporary desire for the model as opposed to other sporty cars of the period, like the Jaguar E-type or the Alfa Romeo Spider. Not to mention the Ferrari Dino as it was in a different league, price-wise.
This may not be Pininfarina's most likeable car, but back in its time, it was (maybe still is) an exotic and perceived as great looking. The fact that "Mercedes did not want it" really means absolutely nothing. Knowing about the self-absorbed attitude about their products of Daimler Benz management at the time.

What are you saying? You can't improve on a German design, especially a Mercedes design. They simply are the best, objectively, and anything you do otherwise is debasing -- no, bastardizing(!!) -- the car, and you might as well have just bought something else. /s

Indeed, the styling of the Pininfarina coupe is very interesting, and I can imagine if it had a Lancia badge on the front there wouldn't be nearly so many niggles of the design as I'm seeing. The jingoism here approaches Corvette forum levels.

To those that put so much faith and credit in Rudolf Uhlenhaut, know that his decisions were bound by the realities of the market in which Mercedes was operating. A car is not exclusively designed by the styling department. Or any other department (well, the case can be made for the accounting department!). It's a concerted effort to find a happy recipe to build something affordably and sell it affordably for the target market. You build to a price. You design to the expectations built into that category. Perhaps Uhlenhaut would have done so much more with the Pagoda had it not been co-opted by anorak-swaddled old men at the country club and their wives, for the 230 certainly debuted with a certain market in mind: "A sports car for adults!" and ended with an entirely different market in mind, which definitely manifested itself more as time went on. But back to the Pininfarina coupe. Looking at Bracq's alternative drawings, it is easy to see how a car such as this might have been built in an alternate world, perhaps as a motorsport-oriented variant with its fixed roof.
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MikeSimon

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2023, 19:30:34 »
  You can't improve on a German design, especially a Mercedes design. They simply are the best, objectively, and anything you do otherwise is debasing -- no, bastardizing(!!) -- the car,
 

I am not going there.  8) ::)
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teahead

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Re: Pininfarina up for auction
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2023, 19:46:44 »
$1.2M USD is insane for this duckling.

Not saying it's ugly, but proportions and accents are not attractive whatsoever.

That's 300SL roadster money, or BMW 507, or yes, that 330GT and then some.
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