Author Topic: removing fuel injectors question  (Read 4532 times)

yves

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removing fuel injectors question
« on: June 17, 2021, 13:46:40 »
I am trying to test and clean my fuel injectors and can't unscrew the first accessible nut  ( 1)  without bending the fuel line and unscrew the second nut (2) on the engine !
Is there a special tool  for doing that ?
There is not enough room for two wrench . One to block one nut and the other to unscrew... :(
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 13:55:10 by yves »
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scoot

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 13:54:26 »
I don't remember the size (14 mm?) but the tool looks like this.
Scott Allen
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yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 13:56:38 »
Whaou Allen that's a very explosive answer ....!
Thank's i'll order that"wrench"

And the size is 17 for the first nut and 19 for the other   ;)
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

mrfatboy

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2021, 14:00:44 »
I use the same tool as Scoot and a crows foot for bottom nut to hold in place. I might have even cut down a sacrificial wrench instead of a crows foot.
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Vander

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2021, 14:05:14 »
The injection line wrenches are made by Hazet, they make them in both 3/8" drive and 1/2" drive.

3/8" drive tool number is Hazet 4550
1/2" drive tool number is Hazet 2745-1

Once you get the injection line separated from the injector, you can put a deep well socket on the injector to remove.
1969 280SL

yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2021, 15:33:55 »
I have tried with a sacrifcial wrench  19 mm at the bottom nut and a 17 mm at the upper one without succes even with a strong effort....! and i don't want to break the line. So it seems that the "scoot" tool must be the right one but i can't find it on the net....
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

mrfatboy

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2021, 15:39:50 »
When you used the 19mm on the bottom did you brace/lodge against the head so it will not twist?  If you don’t have that set it will never work whatever you use on the injector/top nut.
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yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 16:04:47 »
Well I don’t know the words brace /lodge but I think you must say that the bottom wrench is very strongly blocked against a solid stuff… it’s the case ! 😬but I wait to have the right crowfoot wrench
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

wwheeler

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2021, 16:09:49 »
You can also try a penetrant on the area where the fuel line goes through the nut. That can corrode very easily and cause binding. I would recommend using a VERY light coat of antiseize at this juncture when assembling. Makes it a breeze next time you need to take it apart. Also you torque the injector (20 Ft. lbs???) and the fuel line nut at around (18ft. lbs). Confirm these values first! The point being that the nut is torqued down with a lower value than the injector. In theory this will allow the nut to break free first before the injector. 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2021, 16:30:27 »
That makes sens Wallace Thank’s
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

FGN59

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2021, 17:22:04 »
Hello Yves,

You can find it on Amazon:

KS Tools 152.1401 - Clé pour alimentation d'injecteur - En matière Robuste et Résistante
Visiter la boutique KS TOOLS
  Prix :   37,69 €

Not cheap, but at least it’s available…
François

1994 Toyota Land Cruiser SW HDJ80 4.2L diesel
sold:
1969 280SL US specs, 4-speed manual, beige-grey (726H), parchment leather
1962 Jaguar MK2 3.8L (4.2L XJ6 engine), black, tan leather interior
1968 Peugeot 204 roadster, white, black interior
1955 Massey Ferguson TEF20 diesel tractor 😁

Pawel66

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2021, 20:54:37 »
I use two of those shown by scoot with two extensions and two ratchets. I had to, however, grind the 19mm (bottom nut) so that it fits all 6 injectors locations.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mrfatboy

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2021, 21:44:28 »
This is what I use.

1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
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Pawel66

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2021, 22:02:44 »
Yes, fitting this 19mm is the biggest issue... probably this is the best way.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2021, 11:10:24 »
I have customised the 19 mm wrench and wait for the 17 mm .....
 And i sprayed some WD40 .... ::)
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

sandcrab59

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2021, 16:32:33 »
I have used these same wrenches on my diesel engines for many years. Hazet is the best.
Of course I purchased these wrenches many years ago, so I guess they cost more now.
these wrenches make it very simple.
Tom
71 280SL-8  Euro
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Benz Dr.

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2021, 18:52:48 »
I've found that removing the valve cover gave me more room to work. Those line fittings can get really tight sometimes.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
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Tyler S

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2021, 23:12:57 »
As Benz Dr stated, Removing the valve cover makes the job far less frustrating and can be done with common tools.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
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yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2021, 18:26:24 »
I used the tools as Fatboy with succes ...
I have tested the spray of each injector and found only 2 with a "spray" the other 4 have a simple jet .
So i put them in a fuel cleaner solution back flush position .... for a day and see the level of the cleaner.
I can put them also in a ultrasonic tank and wonder what liquid i'll pour in ?
The same cleaner should be correct

« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 20:24:55 by yves »
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

Tyler S

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2021, 15:16:16 »
I have successfully cleaned injectors using an ultrasonic cleaner along with Chemdip carburetor cleaner (the one gallon soaking solution). The key is to carefully open the nozzle pintle and insert a small piece of plastic such as the end of a zip-tie to keep it open. Because the injector seats are made of steel, if they are corroded, no amount of cleaning will fix them.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
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yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2021, 22:28:35 »
I  have tested the injectors after cleaning and 1 injector remains with a simple jet....i am glad with that unhoped result  ;)
So i am on the ultrasonic process for the 6th and will see the result .
I have opened the tip  with a needle ..... for the 6  inj .
Looking very close to the bottom of the injector where the tip is , i see a very little hole beside the tip but wonder what it is used for...?
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2021, 14:42:05 »
Well No progress with the ultrasonic bath for 2 hours.... The defective injector remain defective...
So i send all the injectors to a injector specialist even if 5 of them make a nice " tchip tchip" when i put them under pressure at 220 PSI without any dripping before .
At least i think i should have only one injector to replace  ::)
Btw i was thinking about refitting them on the engine after refurbishing : what is the torque for the injector  and for the pipe nut ? 
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

Pawel66

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2021, 16:27:04 »
Lots of posts on this topic (injectors cleaning) with a very low success rate, usually ending: I spent two days on it and then bought a set of new ones...

My sucsess rate was finally ca30% and I bought new ones. :)
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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W121 190SL
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dirkbalter

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2021, 16:57:42 »
Well No progress with the ultrasonic bath for 2 hours.... The defective injector remain defective...
So i send all the injectors to a injector specialist even if 5 of them make a nice " tchip tchip" when i put them under pressure at 220 PSI without any dripping before .
At least i think i should have only one injector to replace  ::)
Btw i was thinking about refitting them on the engine after refurbishing : what is the torque for the injector  and for the pipe nut ?

Torque for the injectors is 35Nm (manual). I don't think there are torque settings for the pipe nuts in the manual.
Dirk
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WRe

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2021, 17:37:16 »
Hi,
here are the torques for a 280SL.
...WRe

dirkbalter

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2021, 17:59:09 »
Hi,
here are the torques for a 280SL.
...WRe

Uhh, I guess I didn't look long enough. I this the "flipp book" BBB? I was also looking for the torque values for the copper nuts, mounting intake and exhaust manifold?
(Sorry for high-jacking the post.) 
Dirk
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wwheeler

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2021, 01:59:10 »
The figures I had posted previously were a bit lighter than what is in the manual. But the point being is that the torque for the fuel line nut must be lower than the injector. It shows to be 25Nm (18ft lb). That should give you enough of a torque differential so that the fuel line nut loosens before the injector itself.
Wallace
Texas
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'60 220SE W128 coupe
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WRe

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2021, 07:07:54 »
Hi Dirk,
I couldn't find any torques values for these copper nuts in some workshop manuals but found a recommendation because of size and type of these nuts saying 25Nm should be alright.
...WRe

dirkbalter

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2021, 14:41:57 »
Hi Dirk,
I couldn't find any torques values for these copper nuts in some workshop manuals but found a recommendation because of size and type of these nuts saying 25Nm should be alright.
...WRe

WRe,
Perfect, thanks
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
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18 C300 COUPE
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Pawel66

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2021, 16:08:04 »
I am not entitled to add my 2 cents here due to limited experience, but I did this job several times and it is to me like snagging a spark plug: you feel when the seal resistance starts, then you compress it a bit...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

dirkbalter

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2021, 17:02:01 »
PaweL,
I used to do the same until I screwed up an alum BMW motorcycle cyl head. After that, I try to use torque settings or wrenches as much as possible.
As they say in Germany: "Nach fest kommt ab".    :)
Dirk
66 230 SL
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18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

WRe

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2021, 17:53:44 »
Hi,
I used to do it as most of us did it over the years that is to say without a torque wrench and a lot of feeling.
First time I used a torque wrench I allways got frightend because of this loud click where you never knew if it was the screw or the wrench.
The first cylinder head bolt I tear off was with a torque wrench.
...WRe

Pawel66

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2021, 17:56:50 »
PaweL,
I used to do the same until I screwed up an alum BMW motorcycle cyl head. After that, I try to use torque settings or wrenches as much as possible.
As they say in Germany: "Nach fest kommt ab".    :)

Very true :)! All that is ahead of me!

WRe experience confirms reaching targets with minimum effort makes sense :).
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

lurtch

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2021, 04:28:04 »
Hello,

    If your injectors are as corroded as they seem to be, its also likely that there is some of the same  scale deposits down inside at the pintle end as well. I would recommend bench checking them all as I did with this test rig I bought and adapted.
It allowed me to visually check the spray pattern and cracking pressure on each one of them.

Larry in CA

Larry Hemstreet  in  N. Cal.

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yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2021, 10:59:16 »
After cleaning  ( diagnostic one injector dripping at a low pressure) by myself with the mercedessource kit and checking by a specialist , i have now 6 beautiful injector on the bench....
I have a question before refitting them on the engine:
do i need some grease on the threads
injector // head
injector // fuel pipe
I think copper grease would be correct  but i need confirmation  ....!  ;)
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

FGN59

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2021, 11:10:50 »
Hello Yves,

From one Frenchman to another, where did you gave the injectors tested / cleaned ?

Thank you
François

1994 Toyota Land Cruiser SW HDJ80 4.2L diesel
sold:
1969 280SL US specs, 4-speed manual, beige-grey (726H), parchment leather
1962 Jaguar MK2 3.8L (4.2L XJ6 engine), black, tan leather interior
1968 Peugeot 204 roadster, white, black interior
1955 Massey Ferguson TEF20 diesel tractor 😁

yves

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2021, 11:57:16 »
SLS Eurotrading  (03 88 82 70 52 )  they charged 60 eur for 1 inj . they are quite reactive  : 10 days mailing included !
I am refitting them this afternoon .... and am raring to drive and test  with the new gear levers bushes fitted in the same time  ;)
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

wwheeler

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Re: removing fuel injectors question
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2021, 17:31:59 »
The best is a Nickle based anti-seize. Use a tiny amount on injector threads and then on fuel line fitting.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6