Author Topic: Power Steering Box Trouble (Read 4269 times)

Pawel66 · « **on:** March 06, 2021, 21:22:37 »

I have noticed this earlier today: when I turn the steering wheel to the right, the movement is, sort of, "grainy" (do not know how to express it), you feel on the steering wheel it is not smooth. With engine on it is felt less. Without PS the "grains" are bigger, the "grainy" movement i smore pronounced.

When turning left - it is normal, nice and smooth.

Is my steering box collapsing?

I replaced the original wheel with a Nardi - that is when I noticed the strange operation. I would not suppose, however, that this would be the cause...

MikeSimon · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2021, 00:23:47 »

I don't think the wheel cuases this. If you have a different feel left to right, there are a couple of possibilities:
Mechanical: It could be in the steering linkage. Something is "binding" or "rubbing"
Hydraulic: Steering valve. Contamination in the valve or a compromise in the internals.
Most likely it is in the steering box and in the piston, which binds or sticks when moving to one side.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2021, 11:05:08 »

Mike, thank you for your kind attention and advise.
Mechanical - I will certainly check, that should not be difficult.
Valve - I will try to study if I can get to it without removing the box (when I had an issue with a steering box for W463, there were several things I could do without taking the box out, maybe I can do it here too).
Internals compromised - this means overhaul. I thought: sometimes when the bearing goes bad, it works bad when turned in one direction while fault is not detected when it is turning in another direction.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2021, 20:31:45 »

I pulled the steering apart.
Disconnected linkage from the pitman arm. Linkage and wheels move from side to side nice and easy.
Pulled out the steering shaft and checked its rotation (two bearings there) - nice, easy, quiet.
It came down to the steering box. I felt "grainy" movement as I turned the shaft - that was it. Very faint of course but it was there. I removed the pitman arm and sent the box to SLS together with the castle nut. I bought the refurbishment service - you send yours and you get another steering box they have refurbished on the shelf. We will see how it goes.
I just do not know any service here I would trust to do it correct...

hansr433 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2021, 21:00:22 »

Pawel, great that you are able to diagnose and pull major components off your car. I am working up the courage to remove my fuel injection pump to send it for a recalibration. I picked up on your comment "I just do not know any service here I would trust to do it correct.... There are quite a few Polish shops posting their restoration projects on FB and some of them look very impressive. How is their work in reality? I am considering asking one of them to make me a boot cover for my convertible top.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2021, 22:07:31 »

Hans, thank you! Removing this box from a Pagoda is not that difficult, I think, when you have this forum, BBB and a couple of pullers... Putting it back is probably a different story - reversal of removal... The most difficult was the gymnastics to unscrew the box-steering shaft coupling...

I do not know the service that could help me with the steering box for a Pagoda. I had issues finding service to do the steering box for W463. I am sure they are there, I just do not know them. I could get a phone number, but then... wait, check - it is not the kind of part you would find quickly was done wrong. Then waiting weeks for it to come back -I just sent it to SLS. I have the same dilemmas with FIP. There was nobody except for Bosch Service in Rzeszow. But they do not know what they are doing. I heard the Polish restorers send the FIPs to Germany. Only recently I found a lead that looks somewhat decent.

There is quite huge restoration industry in Poland. A lot of parts you find in big internet stores are produced here. A lot of cars done here are sold for very decent money on known auctions. A lot of restores Mercedes sold through Bonhams and alike come from here. This industry is big here because there are a lot of specialists (good ones!) on bodywork for instance, because they learned to fix chassis in communism, when you had to fix your car, otherwise you did not have your car. This is coupled with lower cost labour. I think 80% of the work of restorers here is for Western Europe. A lot of Jaguars for the UK. Wood specialists, upholstery specialists - I think there are a lot of world class.

Soft top boot cover (190SL?) - this means upholsterer? I have been waiting for my 190SL upholstery for 6 months now to get the work started... But I am pretty sure i will get it done right.

It is difficult for me to say anything about the particular shop you are referring to. But what I know is that for foreign customers they are really trying. Everyone would like to be recommended abroad as it means more good customers. My chrome guy says: I was doing this chrome bumper for a German customer three times, it was a very rare car, he was paying a lot - I could not give him a bumper with a wrong colour of chroming.

GM · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:30:32 »

I agree with comments by Hans about self-diagnosis and your confidence to remove the steering box!

ja17 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2021, 05:02:54 »

The procedure to re-build the power steering box in the BBB is about 30 pages long. I've done it successfully in the past. Some special tools help. I have no way of testing it without installing it, so some risk is involved. For about $500 you can have one done exchange by a professional hydraulic shop, with all the new parts supplied, tested, with warranty and looking new. Don't forget to replace the coupling between the steering box and steering shaft, they frequently are bad and cause excessive steering play. Be careful to follow the installation alignment procedure carefully and try to mark the steering coupling to the shaft. All kind of problems will occur if not. The turn signals won't cancel correctly, The steering wheel will not be centered, or the amount of steering wheel turns right-to-lock and left-to-lock will not be equal if you do not follow the correct indexing procedure. The steering should lock with the steering wheel on center (key removed), the steering wheel should be centered when driving straight down a flat road, and the number of revolutions to full left from center and from full right to center should be equal. This is no easy task and not often done correctly.

WRe · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2021, 07:49:23 »

Hi Pawel,
do you know this: https://www.mercedesscheune.de/portal/restauration-w111-coupe/step-5-motor-restaurieren/servolenkung-restaurieren.
...WRe

Pawel66 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2021, 10:20:08 »

Quote from: ja17 on March 13, 2021, 05:02:54

The procedure to re-build the power steering box in the BBB is about 30 pages long. I've done it successfully in the past. Some special tools help. I have no way of testing it without installing it, so some risk is involved. For about $500 you can have one done exchange by a professional hydraulic shop, with all the new parts supplied, tested, with warranty and looking new. Don't forget to replace the coupling between the steering box and steering shaft, they frequently are bad and cause excessive steering play. Be careful to follow the installation alignment procedure carefully and try to mark the steering coupling to the shaft. All kind of problems will occur if not. The turn signals won't cancel correctly, The steering wheel will not be centered, or the amount of steering wheel turns right-to-lock and left-to-lock will not be equal if you do not follow the correct indexing procedure. The steering should lock with the steering wheel on center (key removed), the steering wheel should be centered when driving straight down a flat road, and the number of revolutions to full left from center and from full right to center should be equal. This is no easy task and not often done correctly.

Thank you for this guide! I copied it to the "forum excerpts book" I have in my garage - utmost value any time!

I did mark the coupling. Thanks Goodness the coupling has no play whatsoever - these things for W113 are very expensive at MB and otherwise hard to get, I think. I do not think I will do re-installation myself, to be honest, I think I will ask my mechanic for help. Fitting coupling back and tightening is what I am afraid of. I am aware of alignment of marks on pitman arm, steering shaft and I already practiced centering the steering box while doing wheel alignment - I hope I can manage, I fabricated the centering "tool". The plastic bushing I was enquiring about in the other thread is, fortunately, in good shape - I would not know where to find it.

Certainly I would not even think of attempting re-building the steering box

. the only thing we did on it so far was to seal the top of the sector shaft - the procedure is in Tech Manual. That was without pulling the box out of the car.

I see some rough edges of the turn switch opening and the lock plate in/on the shaft - I will probably grind them down a bit (do not know how to express this properly in English).

Pawel66 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2021, 10:23:37 »

Quote from: WRe on March 13, 2021, 07:49:23

Hi Pawel,
do you know this: https://www.mercedesscheune.de/portal/restauration-w111-coupe/step-5-motor-restaurieren/servolenkung-restaurieren.
...WRe

Thank you! No, I certainly did not know this shop, I saved the bookmark, although I sincerely hope I will not need it soon

. I sent it to SLS as I wanted the job to be done quickly and with someone I can go back to in case of trouble. SLS have demonstrated pretty fair customer orientation attitude to me in the past. We will see.

ja17 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2021, 15:28:41 »

The steering shaft coupling is available from other suppliers here in the USA for around $30.00. From the dealer they are over $200.00.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2021, 16:44:25 »

For $30 I would buy from the US with duty, tax and shipping, no problem - please kindly provide a link... I will buy just to have a spare. I could not find them offered by suppliers here.

I am afraid here from the dealer it is not $200. It is close to $1570 without VAT, so I would pay for it $1930!

ja17 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2021, 03:24:40 »

Steering coupling....

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1154600510

hansr433 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2021, 09:14:34 »

Quote from: ja17 on March 14, 2021, 03:24:40

Steering coupling....

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1154600510

Joe, what a great link. Thank you. Their prices are insanely good, compared what we have to pay in Europe.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2021, 11:22:44 »

Joe, indeed thank you for the link.

I am afraid, however, that this is A1154600510, not so rare and not so expensive here either. But it does not fit Pagoda as of chassis number 043 002980.

In any case autohausaz says it does not, EPC says it does not fit, etc.

Or maybe it does if you adopt it somehow?

The PN for late 250Sl and 280SL is A1154600957 - this I have issues finding and this is the one that costs $2000 at the dealer.

ja17 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2021, 15:20:07 »

Seems to be some confusion around this part. I know there are some variations. Some early ones can be taken apart so that the plastic bushings could be replaced. I am replacing one in a pagoda later this week. I will report back with the findings!

Pawel66 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2021, 15:43:15 »

Thank you for this!

From the system I have:
113042
A 113 460 00 57 replaced by A 113 460 01 57 replaced by A 113 460 04 57

113043
A 113 460 04 57 until chassis 043 0 02979

As of 043 002980 and 113 044 we have

A 115 460 09 57

The one form autohaus, A1154600510, was used for a wide variety of models, including W107. Maybe it fits W113, just the catalogues are saying it does not because it was not used for W113 by factory. Maybe it fits, maybe the question is only possibility of taking it apart? That would be very valuable information to know. if you were fitting the one form autohaus to Pagodas - there we are, we just saved a lot of money.

ja17 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2021, 22:18:18 »

We will find out!

WRe · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:38:08 »

Hi Pawel,
I would ask these guys, also for used parts:
- Bruno Wenner: http://www.classic-center-versmold.de
- Werner Karasch: http://www.karasch-mb.com
- Josef Greipel: https://www.pagodenparts.com
- https://ai-motors.de/
I found A1154600957 too.
...WRe

Pawel66 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2021, 08:06:09 »

Thank you!

My coupling is ok, I am digging into it just to clarify this topic for all of us, actually...

ja17 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2021, 16:19:01 »

I do not see any difference between this part and the part from the other link...……

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/3094600210MBZ.htm?pn=309-460-02-10-MBZ&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1154600510

Pawel66 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2021, 20:10:48 »

Thank you! i think I will sacrifice some dollars and try to. Buy the 107 one see if it fits...

ja17 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2021, 15:06:04 »

Looks like the 230SL I'm working on has a splined PS shaft and the steering column also has a splined end. So the W107 coupling will not work on it since one end is splined and the other end is a somewhat "squared" shape. I am not sure if this is the same on all the later W113 cars? They are identical otherwise. I suspect that a solution is possible. I will be looking into it.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2021, 17:08:23 »

My 280SL has the splined shaft in the steering box and the square end of the steering shaft.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2021, 17:15:34 »

I got back my steering box re-built from SLS. We have put it back in the car a couple of weeks ago - no issues there, but I could not try it until I got my FIP back in the car.

With steering box in the car, we flushed the PS fluid, filled it with MB 236.3 fluid, raised the front, let it idle for 20min - works great! Smooth movement, no noise, no air, wheels are turning from left to right and back, no leaks - done.

mauro12 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2021, 21:09:09 »

Hi Paweł, I also have some issues about the steering box . The major issue is that is leaking fluid and I think is getting worst . Apart from that is working fine . I’ve been quoted for 300€ by a very good steering box company in Italy , for complete refurbished with seals and tested in the bench for leaks . Which parts is worth to replace during this service ? Steering coupling and what else ?

Pawel66 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2021, 22:08:55 »

Mauro, I am not an expert in that, no idea. I would have thought workshop will tell you. If there is no too much play, the work of box is smooth, there are no strange noises - maybe it is just a question of leaking. Steering coupling you replace only if it has excess play and it is not repairable.

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Author Topic: Power Steering Box Trouble (Read 4269 times)