Author Topic: 230 sl turn signal switch (Read 10080 times)

dirkbalter · « **on:** January 04, 2021, 16:49:47 »

Happy New Year.
The plastic portion of my turn signal switch is loose. It rotates and moves on the chrome shaft. I found a small roll pin on the side of the plastic body am I would like to confirm the correct procedure to disassemble? Considering these are no longer available, I am trying to be very careful and not break anything. Any tips or insight is appreciated.
I found many post on the function and repair on the lower portion of the switch but noting on the plastic housing part.
Thank you very much.

114015 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2021, 21:52:30 »

Hallo Dirk,

Frohes Neues Jahr !

Yes, sadly that's a tough one.
You can try to pull the little hollow dowel pin out of the outer handle - it's a tough one (I was two times successful using a little needle bent 90 degree at its end)...
... or by drilling a little hole on the opposite end of the pin and pushing it outwards then.
After that you'll get access to the inner parts of the handle.
And then you will see that the inner part (containing the electrical "switches, contacts, spring and ball(s) is broken on the chrome arm.
Only solution I currently know is try to re-glue that one to the arm.
As to my knowledge there is currently no replacement available nowhere around for this part which is so often broken on old units ...

Sorry please for no better advice.

Herzliche Grüße
Achim

dirkbalter · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2021, 22:21:11 »

Achim,
Dir auch. Hoffe Du bist gut reingekommen.
That's what I was afraid off. So, you are confirming that the little pin has to come out.
I am currently trying to 3-d print my broken heater flaps. I will put the indicator arm on the back burner for now and see how that works out.

Thank you much

114015 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2021, 22:28:29 »

Hallo Dirk,

Here are the pics of the handle.
Poor quality, I know ...
but better than nothing.

Yes, I can confirm
the little pin has to be removed first.

Good luck
and keep us updated!

Best,

Achim

dirkbalter · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2021, 22:43:58 »

Great. Thanks again.

66andBlue · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2021, 03:34:44 »

Hello Dirk,
had to do the same on my 230SL when the inner part split.
I used a thin diamond cutting wheel on my Dremel to cut a groove around the split part, outside the movable cover, and used a thin fishing line to tie them together. Then embedded the part in PC7 (or perhaps Marine-Tex, a similar epoxy putty), sculpted it back to form, polished it on a soft wheel and painted it black. Worked quite well. Unfortunately I don't have photos of the repair process and only small ones of the finished one.

dirkbalter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2021, 15:50:27 »

Alfred,
That helps. Thanks a lot.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2021, 16:07:44 »

This is what I stated to Achim about a month or two ago and he never replied to me.
I had a broken handle on my 250SL and the way to take apart a good one is to locate the exact position opposite
the pin and with a real small drill just make a real small hole (Just because inside the plastic cover there is a small indent for the pin
to sit in, inside the cover) just enough to see the opposite side of the pin and push it out.
Since mine was partially broken in half, the cover fell apart in two halfs.
I am not sure when the cover is in tact , will it pull off the chrome handle.
I suppose it should.
Tom M

dirkbalter · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2021, 16:40:01 »

Thanks Tom,
I believe Achim mentioned that in his post above. Mine is not broken (yet). It just moves on the shaft. I will probably take a look at it this weekend.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2021, 22:14:40 »

When the pin comes out the cover will come off.
Tom

dirkbalter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2021, 00:21:30 »

Thank you Tom,
I got it out. Everything (mechanical) seems to be intact. I also got the inner plastic piece disassembled. It is held with a spring clip that prevents the rotation and movement of the plastic housing. It appears that the split chrome shaft end was somewhat bend allowing it to rotate.
I have another question now. Looking at the restauration instructions of the German forums side, it appears that four wires are routed through the shaft. Two black ones and two green ones. In my case only two (black ones) were connected and one white wire was clipped inside. See pic. Locking at my plastic (bakelit) connecting plate, I see where the black ones were connected, I also see the two green wires on the board that are cut off.
Does anybody know or better have a picture on where these wires are attached (soldered) in the black plastic housing? See pic
Thank you for your help.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2021, 17:17:53 »

Dirk:
Since I do not know how to post pictures, I will try to explain
what mine looks like.

First: One side has 2 copper pieces that contact to 2 points.
This makes contact and wipers work.
Also there is a small 3mm ball. I lost mine ( it fell on the kitchen floor never to be seen again)
So I ordered a packet from McMaster Carr and now I have 100 3mm balls.
The rest of the story, You would never believe but that 3mm ball lost on my kitchen floor finally turned up
in a place it should have never been. I measured it and my original estimated measurement was correct
it is a 3mm ball.
How I estimated the original witdh is another story.

Second:
The opposite side of the contacts has 4 wires, 2 green and 2 black.
Hope I describe this correctly.
The 4 wires come out of the chrome tub , 2 green wires side by and side, and along side of the 2 green wires
is 2 black wires side by side.
So it looks like Green
Green
Black
Black
The first green wire is short and is soldered to the back of the contact point.
The second green wire is longer and is soldered to the back of the copper piece.
the first black wire is as long as the green wire and is soldered to the back of the copper piece.
The second black wire is short like the green wire and is soldered to the back of the contact point.

So it looks like green short
green long
black long
black short

Much easier with a picture.
Of course my wires do not look like your picture.
There is no white wire.
Tom

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2021, 17:49:19 »

Dirk:
My memory is not so great, so:
I looked at your pictures, this is what I found.
Picture one. The 2 green wires have been cut and the wires removed from the chrome tube.
These 2 green wires should be replaced and run inside the chrome tube.

Picture two.
The lower short black wire is correct.
Take the black wire with red end and unsolder it and solder it (Next to the short black wire) to the point that has no wire soldered to it.
Now you have 2 black wires side by side. One short and one long.

Next; Take the two green wires that you just snaked up the chrome tube and solder a short wire to the contact point.
This is as long as the short black wire.
Remove the short white wire it is useless.
Now take the other green wire and solder it to where the black wire with the red end was originally soldered.
Now you have a long green wire that is as long as the black wire.
Now you have:
Green short
Green long
Black long
Black short.

Hope you understand this explanation.
Now there is one problem
I do not know which green wire coming from the main switch is the short wire and which one is the long wire.
I would have to take my switch apart to see where the green wires go.
Eventually I have to take it apart to correct my problem of the signal not staying on in a turn.

Tom

66andBlue · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2021, 19:34:53 »

Quote from: dirkbalter on January 09, 2021, 00:21:30

... Locking at my plastic (bakelit) connecting plate, I see where the black ones were connected, I also see the two green wires on the board that are cut off.
Does anybody know or better have a picture on where these wires are attached (soldered) in the black plastic housing? See pic
Thank you for your help.

Dirk,
here are two photos showing the two black and the two green wires and how they are soldered to the Bakelite board and to the rocker switch at the end of the stalk. As you can see there is no white wire, but this is a 280SL column switch and I don't have a photo of the 230SL rocker switch. However, since the functions of this rocker switch (wiper speed I and II, ~~washer fluid pump~~) are the same you could use the layout as shown. Did a PO change the head using one from a different model?

BTW, do you have the ball under the spring in the rocker and the larger spring for the ~~push pump~~ "engage wiper motor" function?

dirkbalter · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2021, 17:47:52 »

Tom and Alfred,

Alfred, I don’t have the bakelite connection plate in the switch, the contacts are attached to the housing itself. At the moment, I believe that may be the difference between the 280 and the 230. The PO has definitely messed with the wiring.

Tom, based on your explanation and Alfred pictures, I created a pic of how I understand the connections should be made? As far as you remember, does your housing look like mine or like Alfreds? I am also restoring the lower switch part. My turn signal wasn’t staying either. I found that the rivets of the little arms were broken, allowing them to tilt. I just drilled them out and cut M3 thread. (As described in the restauration guide). I am waiting for suitable screws to re-assemble. I am attaching some pictures.

Thank you very much to both of you.

dirkbalter · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2021, 17:50:30 »

lower swiich parts

66andBlue · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2021, 21:09:19 »

Dirk,
I believe you might be better off finding a used or for parts 230SL switch. I went through all my photos again and found one of the original switch. I may have some close ups too but need to find them. There is also a photo in the Tech Manual here; https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SteeringColumnSwitch
I made a mistake in my previous post about the three functions in the toggle switch, it does not activate the pump, only engages the wipers. (I'll correct it later).
As you can see it does have the Bakelite board and the pairs of green and black wires. Perhaps Sam McCready ("euro7" on eBay) might have one for parts; call him: 608 221 4701

mbpaul · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2021, 21:32:15 »

I found this on the internet. I know nothing about the company selling it. It says it is for 230SL, 250SL and 280SL and there is differences between 230SLs, early 250SLs and later 250SLs and 280SLs so I do not know what it is really for. But it might be worth investigating.

https://oldtimer-ersatzteile24.de/Plastic-for-Mercedes-Pagoda-Turn-Signal-switch

dirkbalter · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2021, 22:57:50 »

Thanks Paul.
I have bought from them before.

dirkbalter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2021, 00:05:20 »

Alfred,
I was looking through the manual but don't see convincing evidence that the 230 switch has a little bakelite connection plate? (The one inside the black plastic housing that you show in your picture).
I just looked ay my neighbor's 230 SL and the switch (externally) looks the same. In any case, I think I can make my switch work one way or another. (Not that many rainy days in our neck of the woods anyway

). Hopefully one of these days replacements will be available again.

66andBlue · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2021, 01:37:40 »

Dirk,
I was confused about which Bakelite plate you meant; now I understand.
Had to search through all my archived photos but found fortunately more.
Here are more photos of an original 230SL switch; it was made 02-75, thus already a replacement but that should not matter.
Looks like your plastic rocker part is also different from mine. Did it work? That is, select the wiper speed and keep in the II (high) position?
BTW, what is the diameter of the little ball under that rocker?

dirkbalter · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2021, 01:47:35 »

Alfred
Yup, I don't know.
The little ball is 3mm. I measured. Tom has a few spares lol.

66andBlue · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2021, 02:01:07 »

Thanks Dirk! Which Tom has the stash? 🤔

dirkbalter · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2021, 02:04:14 »

sandcrab59. He mentioned it in his post above. He bought 100 of them from Mc Master as a replacement for the one he lost.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2021, 21:04:35 »

Dirk and Alfred:
Alfreds pictures are great.
Looks like mine. My late 250SL and 280SL look alike.
As to the 3mm ball I have 100 of them.
Alfred you remember me and Mark from the old Blacklicks.
I see you changed your old email address so I cannot contact you any longer.
Let me know if you need any 3mm balls.
I owe you from Blacklick.
Tom Mrowka

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #25 on:** January 11, 2021, 22:42:29 »

I ordered a 280SL switch today and they're not available anymore. Nice, really@#@# nice.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2021, 01:40:31 »

Dan:
Sam in Wisc (Euro cars )sent me place in Europe for $550 US $ .
Ask him for the website.
$500 too rich for me.
Tom M

66andBlue · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2021, 05:33:19 »

Quote from: sandcrab59 on January 11, 2021, 21:04:35

..
I see you changed your old email address so I cannot contact you any longer.
Let me know if you need any 3mm balls.
I owe you from Blacklick.
Tom Mrowka

Yes Tom, I do need at least one. I send you a PM later.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 12, 2021, 20:02:29 »

Alfred:
PM answered.
Tom

merrill · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2022, 20:08:03 »

hopefully someone will respond to a new post on this old thread

the plastic that goes over the chrome stalk on my 66 230sl is cracked eventually the whole end will break off.

could i take parts from a w114 to repair mine?

unfortunately the pin the secures the outer part of the switch is deep inside the outer part and i cannot easily remove it to inspect the inner plastic... (i have the oldtimer replacement outer case)

thanks in advance
Modify message

BobH · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2022, 20:49:56 »

I've read that these switches are in short supply, but there are some listed on ebay at the moment

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/benzrestorer/m.html?item=265456530593&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

dirkbalter · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2022, 21:04:56 »

The reproduction ones are available again from Oldtimer 24 for $450 out of Germany (just received one) and Vintage sells the same for $800 here in the US.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2022, 21:10:16 »

You may enquire if this is available or will be available: https://oldtimer-ersatzteile24.de/Griffstueck-fuer-Mercedes-W113-Blinkerschalter

merrill · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2022, 21:46:45 »

hi all,

thanks for the replies,, i was hoping to try to fix mine for less than the reproduction assemblies.

BobH - wow at $800 that is expensive

dirkbalter - i saw the one at oldtimer, today they were just over $500 USD after converting from Euro. What was your landed price. it seems that by the time you pay shipping and any vat you add another $100.

Pawel66 - i have the oldtimer cover but what is broken is the insides not the cover.

i have located a 114 assy for less than 100 and was thinking of attempting to repair mine. this may be a futile effort...

Pawel66 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2022, 21:57:50 »

When you read descriptions you not always get what you mean by cover

I have no idea if W114 would fit, but if the functionalities are the same...

dirkbalter · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2022, 22:33:23 »

Quote from: merrill on February 11, 2022, 21:46:45

hi all,

thanks for the replies,, i was hoping to try to fix mine for less than the reproduction assemblies.

BobH - wow at $800 that is expensive

dirkbalter - i saw the one at oldtimer, today they were just over $500 USD after converting from Euro. What was your landed price. it seems that by the time you pay shipping and any vat you add another $100.

Pawel66 - i have the oldtimer cover but what is broken is the insides not the cover.

i have located a 114 assy for less than 100 and was thinking of attempting to repair mine. this may be a futile effort...

Probably more like $466 after conversion. (You don’t need to pay taxes). Shipping is more, but I needed a bunch of parts so it wasn’t a big deal. Shipping took 6 weeks with regular mail. No comparison to SLS which is freaky fast.
I discovered with the help of Achim and Alfred that my switch was not a 113 switch to begin with And I didn’t want to buy a very expensive 55year old original part that may or may not need rebuilding to work properly.

merrill · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2022, 15:48:12 »

Dirk
hi,
thanks for the reply,

the old timer price is much less than sls. roughly $463 vs $533 (converted)

Pawel66
sorry for the confusion, attached is a picture of the outer cover i purchased from oldtimer

merrill · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2022, 15:17:15 »

thanks everyone for the replies,

after reading this post and many others i have decided to buy a repro unit from old timers.

i could have attempted to repair mine with the 114 i found but i'd be repairing mine with parts that are also 50 years old.
in the long run it makes sense to bite the bullet and purchase a repro unit.

114015 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2022, 21:08:16 »

Good choice, Merrill.

The inner part of the handle is the most vulnerable part of the complete turn signal assembly and absolutely unique to the W113 column switches - which were made by VDO.
All the other column switches of this kind (108, 111, 114/115 and so on) are made by Kostal in Lüdenscheid...; the single parts are NOT interchangeable.
Unless you have someone 3D-printing this part (or that like), your old handle is usually "unrepairable".
So, best choice is to obtain another complete switch - e.g. from Oldtimer-Ersatzteile...
Yes, these are expensive - but at least available again.

Sorry to hear about your pain...

Best,
Achim

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Author Topic: 230 sl turn signal switch (Read 10080 times)