Author Topic: 123Ignition Again?  (Read 1873 times)

TEJOLX47

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123Ignition Again?
« on: July 31, 2023, 15:12:12 »
Hi fellow Pagoda lovers,

I have a late 70 280SL – automatic, US delivered – and I am considering to upgrade my ignition to a 123Ignition.
I think I read most of the posts regarding 123Ignition, but I still have a few doubts.
Some posts say that the “Emission Control System” should be in working condition, some others say “get rid of it”. Have thought about the two options I have a question for those who upgraded on a similar car:
•   280SL
•   Automatic transmission
•   With Emission Control System
•   With transistorized ignition

Quoting the Manual
Using the "123" with later W113's with Emission Control
The Emission System and all of its components must function to factory specs and the timing set to accordingly to those values. With the Emission System fully functional, use "123" Curve setting "E".


Once you install the 123ignition, the Emission System is immediately affected:
•   Because the Speed-Relay loses the RPM feed from the transistorized ignition;
•   Because 123ignition recommends connecting the vacuum line from the manifold to the distributor.
My questions are:
1.   Without RPM info, what happens to the Speed Relay and the Relay-box?
2.   If you remove the vacuum line from the Two way valve, the Emission System becomes ineffective. Should one keep the vacuum line from the Two-way-valve against vendor recommendation?
3.   Is the Start-Lock switch working after these changes (does it prevent the engine start when gearbox is not in “P” or “N”)?

Many thanks
Francisco
Francisco

1970 280 SL (US delivered, Auto, AC, PS)
181 Light beige with 423 Tobbaco brown top

Cees Klumper

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Re: 123Ignition Again?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2023, 21:19:13 »
Just responding to your question 2, you can also put a 'T' in the vacuum line so you can connect vacuum to both the distributor as well as to the Two way valve.

I am not familiar with the Speed relay.

On your question 3, AFAIK the distributor does not affect the start inhibitor switch that is on the firewall. Perhaps it is different on your car,  but mine is also a US spec (1969) that had its emission controls removed long ago and the start inhibitor switch is located on the firewall and only impacted by the automatic gear selector. 
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

lpeterssen

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Re: 123Ignition Again?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2023, 11:07:07 »

Once you install the 123ignition, the Emission System is immediately affected:
•   Because the Speed-Relay loses the RPM feed from the transistorized ignition;
•   Because 123ignition recommends connecting the vacuum line from the manifold to the distributor.
My questions are:
1.   Without RPM info, what happens to the Speed Relay and the Relay-box?
2.   If you remove the vacuum line from the Two way valve, the Emission System becomes ineffective. Should one keep the vacuum line from the Two-way-valve against vendor recommendation?
3.   Is the Start-Lock switch working after these changes (does it prevent the engine start when gearbox is not in “P” or “N”)?

Many thanks
Francisco


Dear Francisco

Interesting topic the one your are bringing up today. 

I once refurbished a wiring harness with emissions control on a car with similar characteristics as the one you have, so I had the chance to study what the emissions control system does.

The emission control has a loop of conditions which once all met, the fuel delivery to the injection pump is cut momentarily to the FIP via a fuel cut off selenoid.

As far as I remember, the conditions were on a manual transmission car that:

1. IDDLE switch was closed, I mean car was not under acceleration
2. Car was on 3rd or 4th gear
3. The clutch pedal was not depressed
4. And finally that RPMS were under a certain range so that engine can be easily restarted by itself without user noticing once fuel delivery is resumed.

Now…. Answering your questions

1. Without RPM info, the emissions control harness will be inoperative
2. Without vacuum to the two speed valve….. I guess that without vacuum the two speed valve will not be able to change the timing of the distributor.  I think that is what that valve does on the emissions control system.
3. Start lock switch. The start lock switch, the one that inhibits car start from engaging the starter selenoid if car is not in park or neutral position has no relationship with the emissions control system. Is totally independent.  So I do not see why that will stop working.

And finally…..

The RPM signal can be obtained somewhere else, not only from the original ignition control module…..

Just connect that cable which is green (with and external coaxial jacket to shield signal against electromagnetic  interference) to the NEGATIVE POST of the ignition coil.

Any RPM meter takes always its signal from that point.

And …. In any case what the emission control system does is not very important in practical terms.  It is much better to have a better controlled ignition system via an 123ignition distributor, than keeping the original aging distributor which may be not precise nowadays because of the wear of its internal parts.

Having the spark on the right point/moment will alleviate many of the pains of an old classic car. You will have much better combustion, which translates is less gas mixing with the engine oil (un-burned gasoline end up in the oil), and that means less wear to your engine.


 

lpeterssen

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Re: 123Ignition Again?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2023, 11:19:35 »
All my previous comments based on a manual transmission car with emission control……

Now looking at the diagrams for an automatic transmission car I see that the safety parking/neutral switch plays a role into the system.

I have to study it better to come to final conclusions in your case.

But anyway I would rather eliminate the emissions control system…..

Will come back once diagrams fully studied and digested in my mind

lpeterssen

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Re: 123Ignition Again?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2023, 14:46:20 »
After reading carefully the technical manual section on the emission control system, and analyzing the corresponding wiring diagram its my conclusion that the starter lockout switch its not affected in any way by disabling the emission control system.

That component is fully independent from the Emission control system.

So my friend Francisco go ahead and install your 123ignition distributor.

If you want to keep the ECS as suggested bu another member, put a “t” on the vacuum lune going to the two way valve.

Get the speed signal needed to operate the ECS from the NEGATIVE TERMINAL at the Ignition coil.

Best regards
L.Peterssen

TEJOLX47

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Re: 123Ignition Again?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2023, 15:35:47 »
Thanks Leonard,
It all makes sense to me.
I will start by testing the new ignition without rpm feed to the speed relay nor vacuum pipe trough the two-way-valve.
As far as I understand, two-way-valve will not change advance nor the fuel-cutoff-solenoid will be activated.
Expect no further consequences.
Many thanks for your opinion. 
Cheers
Francisco

1970 280 SL (US delivered, Auto, AC, PS)
181 Light beige with 423 Tobbaco brown top