Author Topic: Price Survey for 280 SL (Read 17744 times)

Roman Kishi · « **on:** March 10, 2005, 19:51:20 »

Hallo Everyone:

I'm still looking for my dream Pagoda, very emotional thing. However, I saw this car that I like, and thinking about making an offer to the seller. I would like to have a survey on the proper price for this car. This will help people like me who are looking for one, or who are looking to sell one, or just for fun try to be fair for both the seller and the buyer
This is the car's Curriculum Vitae (CV):

- 280 SL 1969 Auto, US model, no bumper guards,85000 miles
- Excellent paint

- Working A/C but needs to be charged
- Auto trans, shifting is good and smooth, has fluids leak to the front pump seal. Estimate to fix $1500. For you who live in Northern Virginia, the estimate was given to me by Carlos at JCP
- Engine is in a good shape, starts nicely, very good pick up
- No rust, except for a small spot of surface rust undercarriage( seat bucket)no biggy.
- Minor accident few yrs ago to the front...new grill, new front bumper, new radiator....but lost "the" small notch to the inner side of headlights
-Chrome is in a very good condition, except rear end chrome and bumpers, show the age and a small dent
Download Attachment:

Bumper dent.jpg
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- Bad Kingpin, estimate to fix $1500-1800 (by Carlos)
- New gas tank and fuel pump
- Carpet needs to be changed
- Seat cover needs to be changed
- Kangol seat belts
- Needs a new Becker radio
- Wood in fair to good condition except the console between the seat
- Dash panels cover fair but I like to change it
- Dash metal panel where the clock located is pent a little bit inward so its misaligned with the glove box lid, someone forced it in trying to get into the glove box with a small crow bar or screw driver( how difficult this to fix?)
- Right chrome vent is loose, and two chrome strips are missing

Download Attachment:

missing dash chrome1.jpg
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- Broken heat levers :evil:
- Needs new soft top and some adjustment to the soft top frame

That's it......sorry for the details

Roman
Northern Virginia
Soon to be an owner

rwmastel · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2005, 21:08:10 »

www.slmarket.com

This publication produces market surveys in each issue (various model SL's, 1954 - current). I suggest you subscribe. There is typically 50 - 80 ads for W113's in each issue and the ads are removed after two issues. Once subscribed, you could probably request a back issue showing W113 market values. Values are based on selling prices, not asking prices.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

rwmastel · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2005, 21:24:05 »

Roman,

Here is what I would question about the car you describe:

- 280 SL 1969 Auto, US model, no bumper guards, 85000 miles
(All US models had guards, so the bumpers got changed for some reason.)

- Excellent paint
(What rust is this paint covering? Was rust repaired properly?)

- Working A/C but needs to be charged.
(Then how do you know it's working?)

- Engine is in a good shape, starts nicely, very good pick up.
(Get a compression test and leak-down test.)

- No rust, except for a small spot of surface rust undercarriage( seat bucket)no biggy.
(Rust is like ants, it there's one there's a bunch!)

- Minor accident few yrs ago to the front...new grill, new front bumper, new radiator....but lost "the" small notch to the inner side of headlights.
(Common. No big deal unless showing in a major MB concourse.)

-Chrome is in a very good condition, except rear end chrome and bumpers, show the age and a small dent.
(The should look good, they got redone - no verticle bumpers.)

- Bad Kingpin, estimate to fix $1500-1800 (by Carlos).
(Common on a car of this age, but of this milage? Are documents available to prove milage?)

Basically, my only big worry would be that it might have been a well used (not pampered) car that was painted pretty to get it to sell. Interior components are easy to come by, but not cheap. Rust, hidden rust, is deadly. The drive train sounds reasonably well sorted, but get it tested. You have many Group members in the Northern Virginia area who might help you pick the car apart in person.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Ed Cave · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2005, 21:41:24 »

I purchased a 1971 280sl in June 2004. 136k original miles on a car with consistently low mileage years (i.e. best I can tell, never sat undriven for extended period). Photo below taken day of purchase. It had only a trace of rust on the trunk floor. Original paint, headlight notches and all spot welds intact. All numbers match. Showed no indication of ever being wrecked. Car was very complete; had all manuals, original window sticker etc, etc., most records, tools. Original working Becker / Hirschmann, solid engine and tranny, average tex interior, wood, carpet all fair to good but showing wear.

Accelerator linkage was sticking but easily fixable. Asking price was $25k, paid 12% less ($22k). Spent about 8 months aggressively searching for a great restoration candidate (very complete and original) and considered this an excellent solution and very good deal. I'm a firm believer that more often than not, it takes time to discover a great purchase opportunity; as in several months (or more), not several weeks. Be patient, don't rush and never hesitate to turn one down and keep looking.

I hope this information proves useful in the assessment of the car you are looking at.

Download Attachment:

LF before restoration 6.04.JPG
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Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA

1964 356C
1971 280SL
2002 SC430
2004 A4 3.0

France · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2005, 01:53:08 »

Hi Guys,

I just did a "cocktail napkin" calculation, known here as a serviette compte (just kidding, I just made that up)

. Charging the A/C is easy--I found a place in Tampa that still uses the old stuff for $50. Once you add up the bigger stuff, like the Becker, the kingpin, tranny, soft top, heat levers, etc., it seems like about $5000 should see you right, depending on how much you do yourself and how many "ants" you find. For a 68 US automatic with 100K mi. in much better shape than this one (except I have a 10-foot paint job) two years ago I paid under $16K. It had already had $14K put into it. I could have just had dumb luck on that one, so you need to calibrate for yourself...and maybe adjust your list of "must-dos." How important is the wood between the seats, etc.?

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder

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i-11.jpg
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andy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2005, 02:11:44 »

check out hemmings,colectorcartraderonline,our sl,and see whats out there,you get a good idea of what you get for your money.
andy
spain.

Roman Kishi · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2005, 09:49:19 »

The car had a new paint about 15 yrs ago from the ground up, records and photos available for the paint job, excellent paint and body.

Roman
Northern Virginia
Soon to be an owner

Douglas · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2005, 10:47:07 »

Do you have a photo of the engine bay you can share? That usually speaks volumes about a car.

Also, is it originally a red car? Seems like most of the red SLs out there started out a different color.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

France · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2005, 13:28:32 »

Douglas,

That might be an interesting cultural survey--I know Carling did not start out signal red. She revealed a blue metallic past when we removed the shifter to repair the stuck-in-reverse tranny. Her datenblat concurs. I suspect that many cars got red paint in the go-go days of the 80s or stock-boom insanity of the 90s. What do you think of my theory?

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder

Douglas · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2005, 13:32:21 »

Trice,

It's not called "re-sale red" for nothin'. Red is a very strong color that, to many people, is the icing on the cake for a pretty roadster like an SL. I suspect it will always be a popular color for color changes.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Douglas · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2005, 15:53:50 »

Roman,

I would also like to point out that the side reflector in that rear photo looks too high. I am always uncomfortable seeing things like that and would suggest you take a magnet to the body and examine it for filler.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

J. Huber · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2005, 17:33:56 »

Roman,

I'll dare to throw out some rough numbers (in a sec).
First, I think its good idea to ask yourself what level of car you will eventually be happy with. (a nice driver, a really nice almost show quality car, or a museum piece concours kind of car). You've already hinted you need to fix & replace a bunch of things. The question is when will it stop (and how deep are your pockets?)

If you want a nice driver, this seems to be a good candidate. Anything beyond that, keep looking. If it were me, I'd check out the rust for sure. The stuff is expensive to repair and has a habit of hiding. Then I'd determine if the king-pin is the only real suspension issue. Next I'd figure out if the pump seal leak is major or minor. Everything else can be taken care of a bit at a time. It will cost you some moolah but you'll get there. Meanwhile you could have a good looking car that runs.

Without seeing any pictures (and assuming rust is minimal), I'd say it is in the 12-15K range. You can probably add another 5-8 to knock off the things you mentioned need fixin' (heater levers, interior restoration, some chrome, soft-top.)

James
63 230SL

Roman Kishi · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2005, 21:33:30 »

You guys have been very helpfull, thanks.
I would like to use my car,and enjoy it, not taking pictures with "her", this will not be a museum car. It will be a driver car but a nice and complete one, it will be driven maybe 5000-7000 miles/yr.

Here are some more pictures
Download Attachment:

Pagosa2.jpg
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Download Attachment:

Pagoda 3.jpg
45.23 KB

Download Attachment:

engine4.jpg
62.8 KB

Roman
Northern Virginia
Soon to be an owner

Jonny B · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2005, 14:16:48 »

To add another view to the pot---

From the current pocket guide from Sports Car Market:
230SL range 25 to 30K US$
250SL range 28 to 35K
280SL range 33 to 45K
Deduct 2500 for no hardtop, add 1500 for 4 speed, add 5000 for ZF five speed. They rated all three series as grade C for investment, some inherent interest.

Figures seem a bit high, but condition will always be the determining factor, and they did not specify any rating on that.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

rwmastel · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2005, 21:56:50 »

quote:
Originally posted by Jonny B

From the current pocket guide from Sports Car Market:
230SL range 25 to 30K US$
250SL range 28 to 35K
280SL range 33 to 45K
Deduct 2500 for no hardtop, add 1500 for 4 speed, add 5000 for ZF five speed. They rated all three series as grade C for investment, some inherent interest.

Sounds like top dollar prices.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Jonny B · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2005, 11:24:10 »

Here is one with a rather high reserve, and an even higher buy it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4535661641&category=6338

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

Ed Cave · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2005, 16:18:25 »

Why does the car look so dirty and the cover look so clean?

Looks like a decent but certainly not a $50k+ car. Chrome appears a little rough and why would he not pull it of this little garage to photgraph it? No one to help push? I certainly believe someone expecting that kind of money should be willing to show you more of the car.

quote:
Originally posted by Jonny B

Here is one with a rather high reserve, and an even higher buy it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4535661641&category=6338

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA

1964 356C
1971 280SL
2002 SC430
2004 A4 3.0

Douglas · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2005, 16:32:31 »

What do you suppose that strap is over the coolant expansion tank?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Kenneth Gear · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2005, 16:35:13 »

I love the pictures of the car covered. They really help with the purchase decision!

Is that supposed to make the buyer feel all warm and fuzzy that it has been taken car of?

Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

Kenneth Gear · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2005, 16:35:57 »

I love the pictures of the car covered. They really help with the purchase decision!

Is that supposed to make the buyer feel all warm and fuzzy that it has been taken car of?

Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

KevinC · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2005, 20:42:29 »

Comment:

I just had some front end work done today:

"REPLACE LEFT KING PIN AND UPPER TRUNION $238.00 labor; KING PIN REPAIR KIT $113.14 parts" Why $1,500 to $1,800?

-Kevin

Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

erickmarciano · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2005, 21:12:04 »

"REPLACE LEFT KING PIN AND UPPER TRUNION $238.00 labor; KING PIN REPAIR KIT $113.14 parts" Why $1,500 to $1,800?

some folks think they should pay more since it is a Mercedes Benz , a kng pin is a king pin

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

Roman Kishi · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2005, 21:50:31 »

I agree with you

quote:
Originally posted by erickmarciano

"REPLACE LEFT KING PIN AND UPPER TRUNION $238.00 labor; KING PIN REPAIR KIT $113.14 parts" Why $1,500 to $1,800?

some folks think they should pay more since it is a Mercedes Benz , a kng pin is a king pin

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

Roman
Northern Virginia
Soon to be an owner

Jonny B · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2005, 06:40:06 »

Another single point, a 280SL sold at Amelia Island, $27500, not sure if this had the buyers premium included.

For those interested, a 57 Gullwing sold at $275K and a 61 roadster for $330K, no mention of condition.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

KevinC · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2005, 14:53:48 »

Maybe Carlos meant "I will replace your kingpin but dont be surprised if there is other front end work needed that may bring your cost to $1500-$1800".

There is a king pin on e-bay for $119.00 right now I believe. A guy was selling two last week for $99.00!

-Kevin

quote:
Originally posted by rkishi

I agree with you
quote:
Originally posted by erickmarciano

"REPLACE LEFT KING PIN AND UPPER TRUNION $238.00 labor; KING PIN REPAIR KIT $113.14 parts" Why $1,500 to $1,800?

some folks think they should pay more since it is a Mercedes Benz , a kng pin is a king pin

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

Roman
Northern Virginia
Soon to be an owner

Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

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Author Topic: Price Survey for 280 SL (Read 17744 times)

Ed Cave

andy

Douglas

Douglas

Douglas

Ed Cave

Douglas

KevinC

KevinC