Hard top on or off ?

[Por911t4]

How do you generally run your car in connection to hard top / soft top ? ….

Hard top all the time OR soft top for summer driving with hard top for winter storage ?

Thinking of getting my hard top seals renewed but in all honestly I'll probably not use it much as I prefer the soft top.

[specracer]

OFF, top down. Ill probably never put the hard top on again. This winter for storage, will put the soft top up to not leave it folded up all winter. Open air motoring is a major enjoyment of this car.

[gimp]

Top down

[thelews]

my hardtop is never on the car, but I only drive it in summer.  If I lived in a climate where I would drive it for a period of time without putting the top down I'd put the hardtop on.

[rjmarco]

Ditto.  Top down.  Makes the car a pleasure to drive. 

[mrfatboy]

In San Diego, no hard top,  soft top always  down 24/7/365 ☀️ ☀️ ☀️ 👍😁

[dpreston Virginia]

I don't plan to put the hard top on again unless I sell the car... Not likely.
Like echoed below: winter time soft top up to not leave it folded up.
Top down adds to the pleasure time 100%!!

[Cees Klumper]

Haven't had the hard-top on for maybe 10 years. When I am with the car (like now, July and August - rest of the year it is in France and I am in Los Angeles) it sits in the barn top-down and that's how I drive it everywhere.

[teahead]

Car SHOULD BE driven year round once in awhile.  If it's cold, yet sunny, good time for hardtop driving.

[TJMart]

I drive with top down in summer and soft top up in winter. Not worth the cost to restore hard top.

[gullwing71]

I guess it depends on what climate the car is normally driven in.
If many folks prefer the hardtop off, then does this also mean that a car without a matching hardtop to body number is not a big deal?
The pagoda I am looking at has all matching numbers including hardtop.  Just trying to figure if a matching hardtop deserves an extra premium even if hardly used.  Thanks.  Btw, I would prefer top-down driving as much as possible.

[scoot]

Always kept the hardtop on.  Looks nicer. 

[Benz Dr.]

And then there's me. I never drive with the soft top down. I don't like the hot sun or cold wind blowing down my neck.

After a couple of bouts of skin cancer I don't see any positives about it.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I keep my hardtop on most of the year except for a few summer months. I find the car with the hardtop shows the true qualities and timeless lines of the Pagoda.

In my case, however, I have the SL 63 AMG as my DD and the push of the leaver makes the hardtop disappear or reappear as need be. Since I have this feature open to me I keep my Pagoda (The Blue Tornado) fully dressed

Dieter

[TJMart]

Matching numbers and an original hard top will always be considered when valuing the car for re-sale purposes.

[Benz Dr.]

Matching numbers and an original hard top will always be considered when valuing the car for re-sale purposes.

I'll bite. How much more at auction can one expect for a '' matching numbers '' car?

[Iconic]

So at least you admit it is worth more ...
You are starting to bend, good Dr. 

[Benz Dr.]

So at least you admit it is worth more ...
You are starting to bend, good Dr. 

Oh, no I'm not.  Try a little harder.........

[Iconic]

OK, your not bending, phew (I'm relieved) ..... I appreciate you steadfast convictions !!!
See you soon. 

[Norm]

First to the question hard top on or off?  It's your car, I would think you would know how you prefer to drive the car and that is what you should do.  Somebody earlier suggested that you not leave the top folded in the down position for long term storage.  I would agree with that.  Also, if you have air conditioning I find that my AC is more effective with the hard top on then with the soft top up.

On the second matching number issue....  There can be no definitive answer as to added value in all cases. if a potential buyer cares about that particular issue then sure there is value but I would think most buyers are interested in the condition of the car 1st.  There are all types of owners out there that enjoy their cars.  Are all the production paint spots correct?  Does the car look exactly as it did when it rolled out of the factory?  If that is your goal in owning one, go for it and enjoy the journey getting there (or paying the price for one that matches your goals.)  If you get enjoyment from owning and driving one of these cars, even if the "experts" might have a field day pointing out minor inconsistencies vs. "original", smile and let them have their fun.  After all, at the end of the day it is your car to enjoy, not somebody else's.

I knew a Corvette expert who spent countless hours on a nut and bolt restoration of a 66 Corvette.  After wining a national concours competition he rolled the car back into it's trailer and he stored it for several years when he later gave it to his daughter as a present for her sixteenth birthday.  He smiled when he told me that story and said that the satisfaction of winning the competition could not hold a candle to the smile on his daughter's face.

Remember, you decide what makes you happy.  Not what someone else thinks.

Norm

[neelyrc]

My car is only available for driving from about December 1 to May 1.  Fortunately, in Alabama, we typically have a fair amount of top down driving weather during this period, particularly in the spring.  When I left Alabama in May I left the car parked with the hard top in place.  If we are having unusually warm weather this coming  December, I may pull the top right away.  Typically it will come off in February.  My lower limit for driving sans top is about  66 to 68°F (19 to 20°C).  Global warming may increase my top down driving time!

[Peter]

Driving the car in the winter is also a joy.
Even in the UK there are nice days in the winter. The hardtop is then ideal.
When you want do long distance trip the hardtop more comfortable as it is much less noisy then the softtop.
There are portable hardtop stands, to leave the hardtop at the hotel and drive locally cabriolet.
This is my “modus operandi”.

[su8pack1]

Every 4 or 5 years I'll put it on for the season just for a different look.

[KevinC]

Oh, no I'm not.  Try a little harder.........

I believe we should note that when reviewing Hagerty's valuation tool, they speak mainly to "condition" and not at all about "matching numbers". When I sold my non-matching number 230SL on BaT last fall, the sale price ended up exactly at their #2  quality valuation which is what I was hoping for. "Matching numbers" means more on a SS396 Chevelle or Camaro than it does on our cars. IMHO. 

[teahead]

Matching numbers came about when trying to prove chevys were real SS cars since nothing in the VIN or trim tag can prove what engine it was born with.

Many new car owners look for that and pay a premium for it regardless of whether it matters on that particular car.

So, yes it helps, but not as much as say, a 67 big block vette

[MikeSimon]

I used to drive my car in the winter when I lived in Germany and there was no salt on the roads. But not with the hardtop on! On a sunny winter day, soft top down, with the packed snow crunching under the wheels and a warm coat and hat on - great experience.
In the US (MI and OH), I store the car for 7 bad weather months with the hardtop on. Never drive it like this. From May through October it is convertible time.

[zak]

In the summer months here in NJ, say May - October,  I drive my 250 SL with the top down and keep it down. I put on a car cover over the top down car when it's  in the garage over night.
Other times of year I install the hard top and love it too. That greenhouse visibility is fantastic. The 4 point lockdown on the hard top adds rigidity to the chassis making the car feel and drive rock solid.
I very very seldom use the soft top at all.

Does anyone have a cover that just fits over the top down open cockpit? I forget what they are called. A tourneau cover Lot's of British cars had them back in the day. They would snap in place to protect the interior at door top level.

I recall seeing a fellow driving an MGA in the rain with this type of cover and his head was sticking up thru the cover. Pretty funny looking. He couldn't see the gauges or pedals or stick shift or steering wheel but he was buzzing along.

jz 

[Bonnyboy]

My car is just for fun, so the hardtop is put away and hasn't been on the car in 8 yrs.  The soft top on the other hand has been up 8 times in that 8 yrs either with passengers who get a little chilly or if caught in a big rain.   my interior isn't pristine so if it is raining when I set off I usually put the soft top on when parked and drop it again to leave unless its a torrential downpour and dry it as best as I can back at home in my heated garage.   

Its all about what you want out of your car.   I know a guy who hasn't taken his hardtop off in the 8 yrs I have known him and he said its the only way his wife will ride in the car and he likes his wife so the top stays on. 

I must admit that I don't like to drive when there is salt on the roads as it trashes the wheel wells and rockers so for winter driving there better be a good reason (like a Porsche sponsored event or a BMW event) - I am usually not the only top down as the MGB guys are good for top down in all weather. 

In the winter I wear a lambskin hat with a buckle under the chin and gloves and a blanket over my lap and the rides are usually to an event on the highway.   Its dorky as all get up but I am warm.

[zak]

For me it's full top down all summer. However come fall I put on the hardtop. I enjoy the visibility with that great greenhouse. With the pagoda roof on the car looks great. But what I really enjoy is how tight the hard top makes the car feel with less flex and scuttle shake. Those 4 lock down points really lock it in place.

Who was the fellow - Eugene Borringer (?) who drove a 230 SL to victory in those long distance rallys back in the day ? I wonder if his hardtop was more firmly held in place?

jz 

[neelyrc]

Who was the fellow - Eugene Borringer (?) who drove a 230 SL to victory in those long distance rallys back in the day ? I wonder if his hardtop was more firmly held in place?

The Eugen Bohringer rally car that won the Spa - Sofia - Liege 1963 run was a highly modified pre-production 230sl with a fixed hard top. Attached are a couple of shots of the car at our 2016 Euro Event in Merano, Italy. 

[114015]

Ralph,
The Boehringer car's hardtop (000014's hardtop) is detachable
as on every other ordinary Pagoda as well.
It's not fixed by welding or so ....

 

Best,
Achim

[teahead]

Maybe it was a "California" type w/no softtop?  And no backseat either???

[Benz Dr.]

I saw a 250SL that was vintage raced and he ran with a hard top that was bolted on to his roll cage. He could remove the hard top to work inside the car by removing 4 screws. It was a very stripped out car with no inner door parts or real dash. 2'' exhaust straight pipe front to back so it had a real rumble. I've driven my car without any exhaust and just the header pipes - that was really loud!!

I could get away with all kinds of noise infractions living out here in the sticks - I don't any more but I could if I wanted to.   

[neelyrc]

Ralph,
The Boehringer car's hardtop (000014's hardtop) is detachable
as on every other ordinary Pagoda as well.
It's not fixed by welding or so ....

 

Best,
Achim

Achim, I stand corrected! 

I recently read an article about the Spa - Sofia - Liege Rally indicating that the roof of #39 was “rigidly” attached to the body (whatever that means!).

[114015]

Maybe it was a "California" type w/no softtop?  And no backseat either???

Correct Rob (Teahead).

The factory original Boehringer Pagoda was just an ordinary pre-production 230 SL, serial no. 000014; built/finished in May 1963 to be exact.
The car was built and "delivered".... uhem, MB-company-internally delivered in 568 red with an ordinary softtop. The hardtop is missing there on the datacard.
It was then added during the extensive preparation of the car for the planned August rallye (Spa-Sofia-Liege)
which was all done by Erich Waxenberger.

The softtop of 000014 is still present.
And yes, Rob, you are absolutely right here as well.
230 SLs were NEVER available as "Californias"; i.e. withouth softtop compartment.
Only 250ies and 280ies could be ordered as "Californias" (option code 41/7 or 417 on the datacard).

And you are also right with this... at a certain time in its lifetime (but no longer today), the Boehringer car also had a jump seat.
Most likely AFTER its race career ended in 1965 ...
 

Cheers,

Achim
(coffeehead)

[114015]

I recently read an article about the Spa - Sofia - Liege Rally indicating that the roof of #39 was “rigidly” attached to the body (whatever that means!).

Yes, Ralph.
You are correct here.
I read those comments too somewhere - but I forgot where that was...
Well, at least this piece of info is not correct here for this car anymore. But maybe it was for the other Boehringer car, the second Pagoda, the 1964 car (licence number S-TT 473).

Best,
Achim

[Shvegel]

It has taken hold in the Porsche world where few original engines survived.  1972 was the worst.  They moved the oil fill to the outside of the car and gas station attendants filled the oiling system with gasoline.

[lowpad]

I feel like my 230SL offers the best of both worlds, an effective and easy-to-use soft top for the summer and a vault-like hardtop for the winter (I live in the Northeast and drive my car all year round, weather permitting).  Honestly, I think the car looks great in any one of those configurations.  As an aside, my father drove a 1966 Corvette convertible that he would fit with the hardtop for winter use.  Putting that top on was a complete PITA compared to the Pagoda, whose simple and effective mounting system is a tribute to its creators.

[Sam SL]

I enjoy the car as a coupe and I think it is prettiest with

a. hardtop on.
b. soft top up.
c. soft top down.

Hardtop has not been off for years. 

[Dudlow]

My take on this for what it's worth......

I use my car in the UK twelve months of the year.

The top is on from around October until May, then taken off. The most noticeable thing immediately after removal is how more agile the car feels. They are heavy tops.

I do prefer the look with either the top on, or the hood down. Soft top up is not the best profile.

[VincentR]

Hello All,

Always keep the hardtop on !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdO1T2i7a3c

Best regards.
Vincent R
280 SL 1970 (Silver / Marroon Tex)
Besançon - France

[uptheorg]

Owning these cars is very much an exercise in style and, for sure it always looks good in any one of the three configurations. Having said that, isn't the name of this forum PAGODA? I keep the top on as much as possible -- in the heat of the summer, I will take it off only because I enjoy top-down driving when I can.

[teahead]

looks good w/the hardtop on.  Took it out a few weeks ago.

[john.mancini]

Moved to sunny SW Florida about 10 years ago. No more snow, salt or sand on the roads. No more pot holes. No more bad MA drivers, although the retired FL drivers have been known to rear end a car or two . (They often confuse the gas pedal for the brake pedal. Totally understandable). My 69 280SL, hard top on. Looks great and leaves me with more room in my garage. My 65 230SL left the factory as a soft top only car, so that is either soft top up or down. What a life!

[Merc_Girl]

Though shalt always go topless, unless there be a hail storm, as that hurts your eyes!

If you look carefully in the small print, it’s after 12th commandment.

Living in Scotland is not an excuse, you knew the risks when you purchased a convertible

🤣

[66andBlue]

Though shalt always go topless, ...
🤣

.. especially in Southern California where Santa knows the correct way to bring joy.
Merry Christmas to everyone!

[Merc_Girl]

.. especially in Southern California where Santa knows the correct way to bring joy.
Merry Christmas to everyone!

Love the picture!!

Merry crimbo one and all 😁

[JN]

I keep my hard top off until winter storage, I never put a soft top up because I do not have one.

JN