Author Topic: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion  (Read 2647 times)

cfm65@me.com

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Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« on: May 18, 2018, 06:55:55 »
Hi Guys,
Has anyone tried this before?
Regards
Chris
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 13:35:50 by cfm65@me.com »
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
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cfm65@me.com

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 06:00:03 »
Come on Guys,
Don't be shy or embarrassed. I think it is a great option vs used Getrags and used T5 boxes.
The E Type guys have fitted them with great success. Zillions of these boxes are available, new and used in various ratios.
I am sure it has been done in Australia and NZ.
The ones I have looked at are small, compact and light, with the shifter in the correct position, loose bell, mechanical speedo drive and a rear rubber mounting. Best of all, you can buy NEW ones, over the counter at the local Auto Zone at half the price of the popular retro fits mentioned above.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

Garry

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 06:33:56 »
Chris,


I suspect the lack of answer to your Supra gearbox question is that the more valuable these vehicles become, the less likely non standard conversions are to occur and quite potentially the more likely is it that such a conversion would actually be removed from the car. A conversion like that is probably a great way to reduce the value of the Pagoda!!! :P
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia
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Shvegel

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 23:10:59 »
Garry,
That's where I'm at.  Have almost the entire Getrag swap but probably won't install it.   If I am not mistaked the Getrag transmission is also used as a high performance upgrade for the Getrag.  I would guess the Getrag is stronger. 

Garry

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 23:22:49 »
I installed a Getrag in my old 280SL that was data carded with a 5 speed but missing it.  It was a great gearbox out of an M5 but when ZF started to produce the 250 new gearboxes I ordered one and got it.  At that point I decided that I would make the change to a 230SL that I preferred and sold the car and the spare new ZF box with it for later fitting.
I think it was a great box with relatively short sharp throws much more so than the ZF. I believe it was a beefed up version for the BMW M series cars.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery
2005 MB A200
2008 MB SLK 55 AMG
2016 VW T6 4x4 pop top Camper
2020 Volvo XC40 Electric Recharge, on order.

Dale

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 04:47:12 »
 Hi Garry. I fitted a Getrag to my 280SL, and never regretted it, makes the car much nicer to drive. I would say, however, that I tend to agree with you that such upgrades, particularly non Mercedes, may prejudice some later buyer. For that reason I kept everything of the  original four speed installation, and would urge others to do the same. I also bought another drive shaft to shorten, so the original could be put back, although, not while I own the car !!
   Cheers,   Dale
1971 280 SL Five Speed (Getrag) Tobacco/Cognac.
1966 Fiat 2300 S   Gunmetal/Tan
1993 500sl. Teal  (Beryl)

whitepark

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cfm65@me.com

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 02:32:55 »
TKS Gents,
Much appreciated.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

mdsalemi

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2018, 16:18:50 »
The "Toyota Supra" caught my attention, as I just wrote some placard for one appearing in the Concours of America.

The [Celica] Supra came in four versions, sometimes erroneously called "Mark I-IV" but more properly, A40; A60; A70; and A80. Those four versions were made from 1978-2002.
In the transmission department, amongst the 5-speeds (since that's what this thread was/is about) the car came with a number of them through production; all of them made by Aisin--the  W50; W55; W57; W58; and R154. An option on the A80 4th generation was the Getrag V160 and V161, six-speed manual transmissions. The specific car I was researching is equipped with one of those.

I cannot tell you the differences between them all only that these were specified on those Supras. Also, because the Supra had a huge media presence in both games and movies, it became a favorite of young hot rod tuners and finding one in unmolested, unmodified condition is not easy these days! I'm told "parts are plentiful" and I have no doubt that finding any of these transmissions won't be too challenging...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
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franjo_66

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2018, 05:01:07 »
I have personally used the Supra boxes on many other car conversions.
Mostly behind big chevy or holden V8s or straight sixes.

1. W58 5-speed, used in Mk2/Mk3/Mk4 Supras behind the turbo 1G and NA 5M, 7M and 2JZ.

2. R154 5-speed (Aisin-Warner), used in Mk3 Supra behind the turbo 7M and 1JZ.

3. V160/V161 6-speed (Getrag), used in Mk4 Supra behind the turbo 2JZ.

W58 is the cheapest but also the weakest. V160 is strongest but by far the most expensive. R154 is the middle ground.

For a Pagoda conversion, the W58 would last forever. I had one behin a 400hp+ Holden V8 and it lasted 5 years of abuse.

The W55/57/58/59 are the same boxes with different internal ratios

They are a great gearbox!

Regards
Franjo
1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i

franjo_66

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2018, 05:06:37 »
Just some additional details.

The early W5x boxes have an alloy sandwich plate, later ones (from late 80's) have a steel sandwich plate which makes the box a lot stronger, and this is only significant for conversions behind big horsepower motors.

W50 was used in the Celica and is a different box to the W55/57/58/59 and not as strong
1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i

jeblack123

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 22:01:53 »
I replaced my non -synchro transmission in my 1958 Austin Healey 100-6 with a W58 out of a non -turbo Supra and it was a tremendous upgrade to the original transmission. I agree that it would be robust enough for the Pagoda and the R154 or V160 would be overkill for normal usage.Here is a link to the different gear ratios for the various iterations of the Toyota transmissions

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/threads/18667-Toyota-Manual-Gearboxes-and-their-Ratios-(W-R-V-K-T-P)

Hope this helps!

James

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2018, 20:02:45 »
Thanks Michael, Franjo and James,
Much appreciated.
I managed to aquire most of the ‘kit’ to perform the swop. I find it strange that in the ‘Research and Development’ section the Toyota box seems to be a taboo, however the BMW Getrag and/or T5 are quite acceptable.
My Pagoda is not a good example and will never be worth a lot of money. Yet, I still love and enjoy it(my fourth one in nearly 40 years, 3of them auto).
The auto box had been ‘overhauled’ by the previous owner and I spent a small fortune sorting a leaking torque converter.
At this stage, I hope and believe it is only a matter of linkage and operating oil pressure adjustments.
I will persevere, however, I think I can see a Toyota 5 speed over the horizon.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

mdsalemi

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Re: Toyota Supra 5 speed conversion
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2018, 17:48:02 »
...the Toyota box seems to be a taboo...Getrag and/or T5 are quite acceptable...

Chris, I don't think there's a taboo against the Aisin/Toyota boxes, but the Getrag and BW T5 have been done before so there is more information out there for people willing to do this.

If anything, there is a general taboo against any modifications. This isn't limited to this forum/club but mostly within the Mercedes-Benz community who seem to have a greater appreciation for originality than anything else. It's not universal however, but in contrast to other marques and clubs it may appear to be that way. "The market" for what its worth, places a higher value on originality than on modifications...even here when discussed. Just wait until some eBay beauty shows up, and the SL Pagoda Group vultures feast upon every little detail that's not right!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2019 Ford Flex SEL
2019 Ford Edge SEL