Author Topic: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED  (Read 9388 times)

Garry

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Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« on: October 05, 2017, 22:20:05 »
After watching a demo at PUB on LED’s I decided to order some and have just fitted them. 


Its like chalk and cheese and I should have done this a long time ago.  Some slight mods on the tabs of the lights to get them to fit but nothing too hard and bingo, bright white light both high and low beam.


Now for the rest of the car.

Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
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Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 22:35:27 »
I am more and more tempted, even though it is not really fully legal here...

Not too much heat inside the light housing?
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 23:07:33 »
Pawel,


As you can see from one of my photos they have heat dissipators on the rear of each LED that sit in the Light bucket area and should easily lose the heat generated.


From the outside you cannot see any difference as I also left the front bulb cover on. they spread the light on low very well and are able to be set for Left or Right hand cars prior to installation.


Can highly recommend them.

Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

JamesL

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 06:08:51 »
I thought one of the benefits of the LEDs was that more of the energy is used to generate light, whereas under the old stuff, they generated as much heat as light - or, put another way, they power draw is reduced as the "bulb" is only producing light rather than a lot of heat and light
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 07:00:36 »
Garry, James

Have you both used the same make of LEDs and from which supplier ?

Thanks

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 08:00:05 »

Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 12:15:02 »
There the ones I installed, made by 6th G and also came from Classic Car LED in the UK. They came with the adaptor for the lens that you need.

Like all LED’s they do generate some heat and I believe to ensure long life they have a removable finned heat dissipator on the back end of each light.

Garry
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 12:20:41 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 13:40:14 »
I realize the function of the heat dispenser. Just that the very presence of the heat dispenser suggests there is some heat. the heat goes from dispenser out - to the light housing, where it accumulates to some extent - that is where my question was coming from.

I checked legality. In my place you may have the car registration document taken by police and for sure you will be fined for LED. There is no bulb approved for public roads. Only for racing. Recognizing all the benefits, I think I will hold with replacement.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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W121 190SL
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 00:06:01 »
Pawel,


I was actually quite surprised how much heat is generated from the light.
Interesting that the registration is illegal with LED’s, do they specify what lights bulbs have to be used as the original bulbs in some cases are not available and an alternative replacement is recommended by MB?


Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
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Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 09:36:16 »
Garry,

On heat - indeed, this is what I have read when studying this topic a bit. The lamps and their housings are designed to cope with heat generated by the type of bulb they are designed for. I was just curious here. When I saw radiators on the bulbs I got suspicious. But if other colleagues are using LED and it is fine - then I guess it is fine.

As for legislation: it is all about anti-dazzle. In Europe lights are not symetrical for decades bacuase of that. In esence it goes together with how a car received its homologation (for what type of light). It is normalized in Europe. Then it depends on how rigid the inspectors or the police are in this respect. If you come across a strict policeman - it can be very unpleasant. If you come across a strict inspector who periodically checks your car - he will just not let your car pass. The type of the bulb is specified for the car and marked on the lamp glass most often. They usually do not pay a lot of attention if they see "yellow" light in the older car. But if they see white or blue, they become suspicious. There is a number of e.g. xenon looking bulbs to replace regular H4 -and if they are E-marked, they are fine (this is usually the case for reputable companies, such as Philips, Osram, etc.). No E-mark means trouble. As you can imagine there is no official recommendations list for replacement bulbs of any sort.

Another example: xenon light equipped car without self-levelling chassis - trouble. Any new car sold with xenon lights automatically has also self-levelling chassis or lights.

The other part of the story is insurance. When in trouble, you may be surprised that the insurance company of someone who, say, hit your car with his, goes to court to prove that it was your fault because you were using a car that is not roadworthy because it had e.g. summer tires in the winter or wrong lights that dazzle other drivers.

When I saw the posts on LEDs here, I said - brilliant! I started looking for LED bulbs for my Pagoda, but also for W463 I have. Then I found out none of them is legal. Philips have them - for racing/rally only, clearly marked not for public roads. I think it is a question of time - they will come.

And another aspect important for me: if reputable manufcacturers do not have these bulbs approved because they may dazzle other drivers - I am not sure if I want them, as they may dazzle other drivers.

But: if anyone finds LED replacements that are good (approved) for instance for Germany - they would be good for Poland too. E-mark works across Europe, no matter which country gives it. Sometines it also work with policeman if something is German TUV approved as this is a very respected institution in Poland (as most of the German technology related regulations and institutions).

So for the time being I am just experimenting with how do I get the best light within regular types of bulbs. For instance I have been looking for bayonette adaptor from BA20S we have in fog lights to BA15S that is commonly used for 21W bulbs and the reason is that any 35W bulb I found so far gives much less light than any standard 21W bulb from Philips, Osram or Narva (I use foglights for DRL). I think I will use a motorcycle 35W bulbs that come with BA25D, just covering one of the connectors.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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W121 190SL
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 21:46:59 »
Pawel


Thats very interesting as here on an inspection they take a very different approach.  They make you drive to a certain distance from a wall marked with the correct lighting requirements and then get you to go between Hi and Low beam to see that the lights both have the minimum illumines required and that they have on Low beam the cutoff of the upper half of the light.  At the same time they check the light throw to ensure it is set for RHD car and not a LHD car so there are two three things that can cause a fail. Not light enough, wrong lens for light throw and incorrect set for LHD/RHD.
They also have a light standard for tail and brake lights on visibility at certain distances but that is rarely inspected, only that they work. Then to add to the confusion, some states require the roadworthy check annually and some only require it when registering or transferring the car to a new owner.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
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Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 22:20:09 »
Garry,

Well, the annual inspection (compulsory) is not worrying me that much - you can even replace the bulbs for that occasion. Here they come with a portable device, place it in front of every lamp and check both the light strength and the adjustment. Usually if the lights are out of adjustment, they will adjust them for you. Normally they do not check the bulbs, but if they see something out of standard - they pay attention. The check up is only for low beam. The high beam - it is just supposed to be there and you are supposed to have the high beam signal. All other lights, such as fog lights, DRL, additional lights are supposed to be off automatically when low beam is on (exceptions are for the new cars homologated differently).There are also norms for tail lights and blinkers - the conversation goes towards these norms only in case someting is visibly wrong with tail lights or blinkers.

The main worry is police on the road and insurance, actually.

Pawel
Pawel

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Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 20:49:59 »
I have just been watching a programme on TV about LED bulb replacement. They were testing LED replacement for H7. LED was "no name" manufacturer.

Three tests:
- shape of light beam - LED was as good as H7; much more even light intensity in case of LED within the beam profile/shape on the wall
- light intensity H7 was 360lux, LED 1100lux
- power consumption - LED 1.96A, H7 3.2A

Looked really great.

And the final remark: "these bulbes are approved in many countries, but they are not legal in EU. We have to wait, but we will let you know as soon as this changes".
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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W121 190SL
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 02:24:00 »
The light is impressive with low power drain.  Hope it gets approved for you soon.

Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
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merrill

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 20:34:28 »
hi
what is the part number for the 6th G kit?
Matt
Austin Tx
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Garry

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Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

bracurrie

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2017, 14:07:06 »
But: if anyone finds LED replacements that are good (approved) for instance for Germany - they would be good for Poland too.
Have you seen these https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/5-75-inch/vc5000-ultimate-5-75-inch-kit/
1970 280 SE W108.018
M130.980 w/ US emissions
manual column shift

Pawel66

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2017, 15:57:31 »
it looks like they have great specs indeed! BUt I do not see any claim to be ok for Europe...
Pawel

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mBdrvr

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 16:52:54 »
I bought the bulbs from LED Bulbs for Classic Cars for my W111.

The headlights are European style with H4 bulbs. I needed the adapters the company sells so they fit.

I had to snip off the tabs a bit so the spring holder would fit around them. They work great. (The difference between night and day)

Paul
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bracurrie

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 13:23:11 »
Have you seen these https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/5-75-inch/vc5000-ultimate-5-75-inch-kit/
Very interesting. I am going to go this LED route with not only headlights but all the other lights as well. Brad
1970 280 SE W108.018
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 20:23:40 »
That price is very expensive for the LED’s, but I see that you may also be getting the US round glass units as well?? About twice the cost from the UK supplier who sells all the LED’s needed.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Latest-LED-Headlights-P45T-9200-Lumen-Hi-Lo-Beam-Conversion-12V-16-x-Z-ES-Chips/182376687784?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 20:28:21 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
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Paul & Dolly

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2018, 11:06:51 »
Garry, Paul (MBdrvr)

I have just bought the 3000K warm white versions from classiccarleds, along with their upgraded sidelight LEDS.
I needed to fit the sidelight LED through the reflector inside due to its 11mm collar, it is an improvement as can be seen here on drivers side.

What did you modify to fit the lock ring on the main headlight LED, it seems a bit too proud for the lock ring to sit downand locate.
Did you bend the reflector tabs ? or cut the lock ring metal ?

Advise please.....Thanks

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
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Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2018, 11:52:57 »
Paul,


It was quite a while ago that I did the LED upgrade but I don't believe I altered anything on the reflector and that they fitted straight in.  I remember that there was initially some difficulty but I persevered and they eventually fitted.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2018, 13:36:28 »
Hi Garry

Your initial post mentioned... Some slight mods to tabs of the lights, to get them to fit.......

Any memories of what?

Thanks
Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

Garry

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2018, 22:09:07 »
Paul,


They came with plastic adaptors that sat in the rear of the light reflector.  I have put my car into storage now for winter and don't have access at this point to have a look at what exactly I did to those adaptor units but it was pretty simple to adapt them to take the new light into the rear of the reflector. I may have modded the plastic adaptor. I don't believe I changed anything on the original light unit.  Sorry not much help.


Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2018, 22:15:14 »
Hi Garry,

Thats fine , thanks for the reply,  I think I just need to bend the 3 little lug tags on the Reflector up a bit, just to get the spring cap holder to turn and lock.

Lovely day today...23 degrees in Sunny Cardiff, can`t believe it.

Keep well, see you in France

Paul & Dolly
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2018, 21:33:38 »
I have now fitted the LED headlight units and I am very impressed.

Three points for others:

1) Fit the upgraded LED sidelight  in the reflector from the inside, the 11mm shoulder wil not pass through from the outside.

2) Remove the Bulb Base and grind back the three lugs  ,shown in red below, then refir to the lamp "bulbs"

3) Reduce the 2mm lip of the plastic fitting rings, to 1mm , shown in green below.

This will allow the spring cap retainer to fit over the new LED "bulbs"

Keeep Bright

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2018, 12:46:45 »
Hi, I am just looking at upgrading to LEDs and I am working through the options. I plan to buy from Classic Car LEDs here in the UK. As always there is a wealth of very useful info in this thread and I am taking guidance from those who know. That said I understand there are 2 LED options for the main/dip headlight bulb LED replacement.. either Bright White of or Warm White. Does anyone have knowledge of both types and which is the better/preferred option? I guess it could be down to personal taste?
Cheers
Paul
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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2018, 14:14:15 »
Hi Paul

I think they both give out similar "lux" it may be worth giving Duncan a call at Classic Car LEDS who will know.

I went for the Warm White, on the grounds that it is more in keeping with the age of the car, and hence may not draw attention to me and arouse questions  by "petit officials" who who love to interfere in our "can`t do that" society.

keep well

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
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Re: Changing Headlight Bulbs to LED
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 10:45:56 »
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I am opting to use the warm white also. As you say the Lux levels look similar but the 'warm' look is more original I feel. I have spoken to Duncan and he is clearly very well versed in our cars.

Have a good weekend..
Paul
Paul
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