Author Topic: "Cognac" Carpet  (Read 9999 times)

BigLou

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"Cognac" Carpet
« on: June 10, 2017, 17:39:54 »
I purchased my 1969 280SL in 1989 from the original owner. Manufactured in July 1969, deliver in September 1969 in Los Angeles. The paint is 670, light ivory,and the interior is 140, cognac M-B Tex. The car came with what the original owner said were the original carpets, which were a medium brown color. The carpet color in other original "cognac" interiors I have seen in The Star and various books is more of a burnt orange color than the medium brown color my car had. I'm wondering whether the factory used both colors. The question is purely rhetorical, because neither color was available in 1989, when I replaced the very worn medium brown carpets with a darker brown, and neither color is available today. (Yes, I've tried GAHH, the Classic Center, Bud's, etc.) I'd just like to know what the original color really was. My car came with a beige soft top, 745, now replaced by dark brown because the correct beige fabric is NLA. I saw a data card of my car's color twin (670-140) in one of my M-B books, and that car had a 746 soft top, dark brown. So apparently there was a bit of variation going on at DBAG, and maybe that explains the medium brown carpets that my car came to me with. Thanks for any help any of you can give. Regards, BigLou. P.S. I've checked with the factory, which advised that my original carpet color was 8008, whatever that is. Another archive document says 8024. No wonder I'm confused.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

neelyrc

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2017, 20:20:32 »
.... I saw a data card of my car's color twin (670-140) in one of my M-B books, and that car had a 746 soft top, dark brown. So apparently there was a bit of variation going on at DBAG,

BigLou, if you want to know exactly what color carpet, soft top, paint, etc. were delivered on your car from the factory you need to look at the data card for your specific car not a "color twin."  If you don't have a copy in the paperwork you received from the original owner, you can obtain one without cost from the Classic Center by emailing Tom Hanson with the the VIN Number and a copy of your current registration to prove ownership:   

thomas.hanson@mbusa.com

You should receive a copy by return email in a couple of days.

If you click on the Technical Manual at the top of this page and scroll down to Data Cards and Color Codes you will find a detailed explanation on reading your data card.  I hope this helps. :)


Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2017, 23:33:38 »
Thanks for your reply. I have the data card. But it says nothing about carpet color. Only paint color (670-light ivory), color of the leather or M-B Tex (140-cognac Tex), and color of the soft top (745-beige). Perhaps a particular carpet color was always paired with a particular leather or M-B Tex. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Regards, BigLou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

neelyrc

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 05:51:32 »
The Technical Manual indicates that your original carpet should have been 8008 as you say you learned from the factory.  If you search 8008 on this site (fourth button from the left above) you will find there has been a fair amount of discussion about 8008 carpet.  I did not see that anyone posted a picture of their original 8008 carpet but perhaps a member here has such a picture they can post. 
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

49er

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2017, 15:44:26 »
 Here are a couple of photos of the original carpet that came with my Cognac MBtex interior. I did purchase some brown GAHH floor mats for everyday use and you can see the difference in these photos. Some fading has probably occurred over the years but where the carpet was up under the foot well was least likely to get to much sun exposure. Of course carpet under the tray would be the best example and I will try and get a picture later.

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2017, 19:22:53 »
Ralph and John, very helpful. I will post tomorrow (because it's on my office PC) a photo from The Star of the original carpet from a 280SE(L) that has the "burnt orange" look. You probably saw the article, which was about one year ago. I think my original carpet was the same color as John's. I haven't run 8008 yet as Ralph suggests, but will do so after I fix one of my heater controls (upper right). Not wanting to remove the control unit from the dash, I installed the after-market product a while back, and it became loose when I exercised it yesterday. The upper left is also replaced with the aftermarket product, but the bottom two (the red ones) are original. Thanks again. Regards, Louis  P.S. My 113 also took a 20-year nap, and is mostly original. Carpets have been replaced and the car repainted original color. Electronic ignition installed. New tires (of course). All else original. Nothing missing except the chock.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 22:56:57 »
Here's a photo of original cognac carpet in a 280SE(L). John, could I mail you a sample so you can compare with your original? Regards, BigLou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

49er

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 23:25:38 »
Hello Lou,
 In looking at the photo of the 280SE, I feel the color pretty much matches mine, particularly the shot of the tunnel. I will try and find  a photo of my carpet shot in similar conditions (sunlight) and post it.

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2017, 01:24:59 »
The photo is a good depiction of what I call the "burnt orange" color. If it matches your original, I'll be convinced the medium brown mine came with was a replacement. Thanks for checking. Regards, BigLou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

49er

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2017, 13:41:05 »
Here is a photo of my carpet taken in the sun light. Looks like a pretty good match to the 280SE.

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2017, 14:24:02 »
Looks absolutely the same. Thanks for your assistance. Maybe someday a replacement will be available, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Regards, BigLou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

Alex D

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 01:34:23 »
Another option is to get a white carpet from anyone GAHH, German Auto,,,and dye it or have it dyed to Cognac. 
Alex D
1967 250 SL
Original 140K mi
181 Light Beige, with  112 Turquoise Interior

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2017, 01:47:39 »
The problem is that the carpet has two different colors in it. I'm sure someone could make it as a special order, but the cost would be prohibitive. I guess there isn't enough demand for cognac carpet to justify the investment of making it. Someone said that GAHH "discontinued" cognac carpet. What I think really happened is that GAHH stopped calling their 435 carpet "cognac." I searched and searched and searched in 1989, and could not come up with the real thing.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

114015

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 02:37:10 »
Hello
Lou & John,

It appears to me as both your carpets are "brown", not cognac. 8)

As to our Wiki, cognac MB-Tex goes with brown carpet (8008), and the leather cognac (code 250) with brown 8008 ...?  Huh? This is strange.

Well, what I know from my faint memories is that early 280ies (like other /8's) have got a brown carpet which goes with the MB tex and later cars (sometime from 1970 onwards or so) had the cognac colored carpet (code 8077).
So, both of your cars appear to be pre-1970-change cars.

Let me check exactly the numbers of the color codes together with the VIN of change...;
I don't memorize this quite correctly anymore ... :P :-[ :-X

Achim

Achim
(Germany)

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2017, 16:02:38 »
Achim, your help is much appreciated. I bought my 280SL/8 in 1989 from the original owner, who told me the carpet was still original. He was very honest with me, and he knew I planned to change the carpet anyway. I kept pieces of the original carpet, which was a medium brown color and is different from the "burnt orange" color I have seen in photos, including the one I posted and the ones John posted. My car was released by the factory in July 1969, and sold to the original owner in September 1969. By the way, I realize (from the data card) that the official model is called 280SL/8, but I have no idea what the "/8" means. Thanks again, and greetings from New Orleans. BigLou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

neelyrc

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2017, 17:19:56 »
......but I have no idea what the "/8" means.

BigLou,

Here is a link to a thread discussing "/8"

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=419.0

The  W114/115 cars are also "/8" or "Strich Acht".

I think that sending 49er a sample of your old carpet for comparison as mentioned above might be a good next step for you.

Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2017, 17:47:39 »
Thanks for the link to /8. I checked my data card and it does not contain it, but the original owner's manual does. My guess was "build 8," but that would not have lasted throughout 280SL production. Would like to send carpet sample to John, though I do think his original 280SL carpet differs from what was on my car. Maybe Achim will solve this riddle.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

wwheeler

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2017, 14:53:44 »
Might try calling German Auto tops. You can find the cognac two color carpet, just may not be in the correct carpet style.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2017, 15:36:28 »
Hi Wallace. I'll try that supplier. Maybe it has the correct beige (745, not "tan") soft top I cannot find. I've tried just about every supplier I've ever heard of over the 28 years I've owned my 280SL. The correct carpet style is the multi-loop, and my guess is that all of the retailers are supplied by the same manufacturer, because the offerings appear to all be the same. There is one that GAHH previously called "cognac," and some suppliers still call it that. It's what the Classic Center uses when it restores a cognac interior. But its two multi-loop colors differ from the cognac DBAG used. Just based on observation, I'm guessing cognac was a popular choice. I'm sure the stats exist somewhere. Mr. Manufacturer of the current replacement carpets, are you out there? Can we get a more correct cognac color? Isn't the market now big enough? I'd think the Classic Center would be pushing for this. Regards to all, Big Lou
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

66andBlue

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2017, 17:34:10 »
Have you asked this company for a sample? http://cabrio.de/en/carpets/carpet-materials/db-2-tone-loop
Is that "cognac" close, or the "bamboo"?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2017, 19:18:20 »
Alfred, I have seen that site and just looked again. It seems to be the same carpet all the others have. I have debated whether the 423 cognac or the bamboo is closer, but neither is the same. I also just looked at German Auto Tops. Impressive, and they have a "rust" soft top that's the closest I've seen to MB 745 beige. I'm going to get a sample. But GAT's multi-loop carpets appear to be the same as everyone else's. Thanks for your help.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

wwheeler

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2017, 20:33:31 »
Interesting observation Alfred. While I cannot comment about the loop carpet because my W111 is Wilton wool, I can about the color. The "Bamboo" color shown 422B is closer to the correct red of what I would call Cognac carpet. The 423 "cognac" spots are too dark of a brown.

This is the same deal as the "cognac" leather. The standard cognac leather's red spots are too dark of a brown while the Oldtimer line has the correct brighter red spots. I have some areas of preserved leather and carpet that show that.

The correct combination of colors on the original Cognac is beautiful. The version with darker brown spots is not so much. 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

49er

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2017, 22:01:24 »
 My 2 cents. When I had to get the tunnel carpet replaced, we ordered Bamboo from GAHH as it looked like a good match. Nope. Way to light. Wound up with the with darker brown as it was a bit closer to the original. Maybe someday some company will reproduce a "true" Cognac carpet.

John 

1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

wwheeler

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2017, 22:41:20 »
The problem with looking at samples on-line is that the colors are never correct. Monitors make a difference as well. You just have to get a sample and compare. Dye lots change as well. I have seen a couple of two tone cognac carpets in wool, and they have been too dark so far.

It would appear that there are two "cognacs" around. Maybe Mercedes used different shades depending on material or type of carpet. One more red and one more brown. My W111 has the more red variety, that I know.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2017, 02:30:19 »
Wallace, no doubt about that. John (49er), I think you said your soft top is original. Is it 745 (beige)? If so, I wish you would compare it to the "rust" at German Auto Tops (realizing the difficulty Wallace points out). My original beige was replaced by 746 (brown) because beige was not available when the original owner replaced it. If rust looks right, I'll order a sample. May do so anyway. Thanks.
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood

49er

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2017, 18:30:50 »
BigLou, in looking at the the GAT website I think the Sonnenland Classic German Canvas GC917 Tan/Tan would be the closest match to my original top (745). Rust is much darker.

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

BigLou

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Re: "Cognac" Carpet
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2017, 20:38:41 »
Thanks, John, that's good to know. The original owner installed 746 brown in 1987 because 745 beige was NLA. The soft top sat in its compartment for 20 years, while my car was in a car museum with its hard top on. It had shrunk a tad when I put it up 20 years later, but now fits perfectly again. Amazingly durable. Regards, Louis
1969 280SL 4-sp manual
Light ivory (670)
Cognac M-B Tex (140)
U.S. version delivered by
M-B of Hollywood