Author Topic: Wiper Identification (Read 20895 times)

perry113 · « **on:** December 31, 2015, 23:21:04 »

These are the wipers off of my 1965 230SL. I was under the impression they were original to one or of the 3 W113 models. Can anyone identify and verify if they are 230SL 250SL or 280SL OEM?

perry113 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2016, 16:41:16 »

I am certain these wipers are original equipment on 250SL and 280SL. Does anyone have pictures of the earlier 230SL versions?

mbzse · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2016, 18:44:15 »

Quote from: perry113

Does anyone have pictures of the earlier 230SL versions

Certainly. This "sturdier" type was seen intermittent with the "skinnier" skeleton type illustrated in Perry´s posting on late 250 and all 280SL´s.
They were chromed on the 230SL; and later they were semi-matte on the 280SL. There were basically two manufacturers, Bosch and SWF.
/Hans in Sweden

Tyler S · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2016, 19:07:54 »

The OE matte finish blades on w113's started after vin 2980 on 250sl's. The blades in the photo are not OE blades. The OE blades have the Bosch TM stamp but not the word "BOSCH" on them. The OE blades are also thinner on top then these. Here is a set of these pictured in this thread from Bud's on e-bay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Wiper-Blade-Assembly-Brushed-aluminum-pair-/261189276224?hash=item3cd0181240:g:0eYAAMXQfFJRS6hU&vxp=mtr

cabrioletturbo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2016, 19:09:20 »

Hans

Thanks for posting. I have these rounder style ones on my 230. I do prefer them over the 'skeleton' type on the later cars.

Has anyone sourced the rounder wipers from any of the parts suppliers?

mbzse · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2016, 19:33:57 »

Quote from: Tyler S.

.../...Here is a set of these pictured in this thread from Bud's on e-bay.../...

Those blade holders illustrated in your url link are not period correct for W113. Certainly they are Bosch, but a much later design.
/Hans in Sweden

Tyler S · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2016, 21:52:28 »

Yes Hans, Noted that in my post. The ones pictured at the top of this thread are the same ones Bud' sells. They are not the correct ones but are very similar.

Quote

The blades in the photo are not OE blades

mbzse · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2016, 21:59:53 »

Quote from: Tyler S.

Yes Hans, Noted that in my post.../...

I'm sorry, I guess I got confused there. I interpreted your writing: "The OE blades have.../.. The OE blades are.../... Here is a set of these [Bud's eBay url]"
/Hans in Sweden

Tyler S · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2016, 22:01:48 »

No worries! Sorry about my wording.

mnahon · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2016, 04:21:41 »

Quote from: Tyler S. on January 23, 2016, 21:52:28

The ones pictured at the top of this thread are the same ones Bud' sells.

I disagree with this---the ones at the top of this thread are pretty clearly different from Bud's. The Bud's blades have those oblong holes along the upper edge of the blade that are non-existent in perry113's blades. They also look 'thicker' to me, though only a side-by-side comparison would confirm that.

I think that perry113's blades are original 280SL blades. They look identical to a blade I have in an unopened box, with a 113 820 05 45 part number---see below. This blade, that I think is original has the word Bosch printed on one side, and the word Bosch and the Bosch logo on the other side.

Can you show some pictures of a a blade you believe is original, so we can see the difference ?

Tyler S · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2016, 06:20:11 »

Meyer, I do agree with you that the OP's blades are not like Bud's. However I still think his and your blades were not OE on these cars. Original part number is 113-820-0045. These blades are NLA.
Part number 113-820-0545 which is what you have is used to replace the NLA blades. They are still available from mercedes. The part numbers being only 1 digit different but a change in appearance and addition of the "BOSCH" stamp and TM on the side instead of the TM alone on the top. OE blade pictured below and I am 100% sure it was on the car from the factory.
On another of Buds e-bay listings, he sells just the refills for the OE blades and explains you must have the original blades on the car. The photos in the listing are clearly what I have pictured below.. Here is the listing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Wiper-Blade-Refills-/260711590942?vxp=mtr&hash=item3cb39f2c1e

Mike K · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2016, 10:05:24 »

A few months ago I replaced my wiper blades and found Bosch replacements for about €11- a pair as opposed to the Mercedes ones for about €50- a pair.....

They are identical to the Mercedes Benz refills.

Have a look at this thread:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23299.msg166722#msg166722

mnahon · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2016, 13:52:28 »

Hi Tyler,

The difference in part number and logo location is definitely interesting. The appearance is close to identical to perry113's blade though it's not clear from his pictures. I show a couple of pictures below of a '05 45' blade taken from the same vantage point as your pictures of the '00 45' blade. The shape is the same. The differences seem to me:
- location of the Bosch logo/name
- the black plastic inserts that were added where the upper part of the blade joins the crow's foot

Mike,

I agree that was a great find on your part for the inserts.

Meyer

Tyler S · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2016, 18:53:23 »

Meyer, Yes there is no plastic part on the upper area. There is a small plastic wedge on the lower part where the tangs are bent over. Small design change.

mnahon · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2016, 13:55:40 »

I was looking through one of these contraband parts catalogs---the one at http://www.iauto.lt/mercedes-benz/Car/280_SL_94 --- because I don't have access to the EPC, to figure out when the part numbers were changed.

In this catalog, it lists the following part numbers for wiper blades:
1138200145
superseded by
1138200345
superseded by
1138200545

It doesn't show when these changes were made. It also shows that same sequence for the 230SL and 250SL, so I'm guessing some of these were the earlier 'closed style' blades.

I was wondering if someone who has access to the EPC (or an old dealer parts catalog) could check to see if there is any more detail when these changes occurred.

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2016, 16:24:57 »

I like to just add..

If you want to be sure to get the right part like windshield wipers your best bet is to contact Tom at the Classic Center. I have been burned ordering small items like this. Received used and pitted items for four times the price ... Tom only needs your VIN number and will quote you a price for it.

Case in point: I needed a new chrome ring for my ignition barrel. I ordered one and paid $50.00 plus shipping and duty. When I got it it was all pitted and used. I mentioned this to Tom at the Classic Center when I ordered new control arm bushings. He shipped me a new one with my order of bushings and the new one was only $16.00

If any of you fellows need Tom's e-mail address I will find it fir you.

Dieter

mnahon · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2016, 17:37:13 »

I've contacted the Classic Center, and they tell me they haven't had the wipers available for 9-10 years.

I guess this is why Buds is selling those sort-of-look-alikes.

Meyer

w113abudhabi · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2016, 07:33:25 »

Can we just clarify something please. Were 113-8200-045 original equipment on all 280sl cars? I want to ensure that I use the closest possible available wiper to the original spec on my vehicle which is a 1970 280SL.

Tyler S · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2016, 08:01:10 »

Anyone out there with A 1970 Body and Chassis spare parts catalogue?
Closest I have are a 1967 250SL and a 1968 280SL book. Both list wiper blades part #1138200045

bogeyman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2016, 11:30:45 »

My parts book is dated 1972 and lists part #113 820 04 45.

Tyler S · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2016, 16:42:28 »

Thanks Rick, so we now know part number changes occurred in 69, 70, or 71. Question now is were there 3 changes in that time frame or just 1.

mbzse · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2016, 18:59:04 »

The part numbers for the wiper blades as per the printed factory parts books:

Book 10126 "ed.C" printed Jan 1967 Type 230SL

A110 820 0145 (i.e. a Sedan number series item)
replaced with
A113 820 0045

Book 10202 "ed.C" printed Jan 1972 Type 250SL - 280SL

A113 820 0145
replaced at serial No 02790 with
A113 820 0345

/Hans in Sweden
.

Tyler S · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2016, 19:18:05 »

Interresting. So it appears they borrowed the sedan part for a brief time when things changed to the matte finish. Then changed to its own new 113 designation part. Then changed back to sedan part but with a 113 header. Then changed again sometime before 1972. 4 changes in a 4 year period. No wonder we pull our hair out trying to make these original!

perry113 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2016, 21:16:42 »

For reference The new number is 000-824-47-26.

I should be able to post photos of the latest versions early next week for the forum's review.

mnahon · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2016, 23:51:35 »

The other thing that we don't really know is what each of these wipers looked like. We know that Tyler has one with logo-only on the top (are we certain that this is 113-820-00-45?) and we have the one that perry113 and I have, which is for sure a 113-820-05-45. I do think that these only differ from each other only slightly.

We don't really know what the 113-820-01-45 and 113-820-03-45 and possibly 113-820-04-45 looked like.

Since 113-820-05-45 was not mentioned in the 1972 catalog, it likely became the replacement part after end of production of the car.

I've received 2 answers from the classic center. One says that no replacement has been available for 9-10 years, and Tom said since more than 20 years.

I looked online for a picture of 000-824-47-26, and below is what I found. They look black.

I'm starting to think that this should just be left as one of the mysteries of the universe.

Tyler S · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2016, 00:19:24 »

Meyer, I'm thinking your right. I have a couple of historical books with close ups so will take a look at those tonight. Aside from the stamps locations and minor differences in the pivot point plastic they look the same. You wouldnt think a judge would eyeball that but who knows. Maybe all we succeeded in doing is add another box on a judges sheet.

perry113 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2016, 01:28:36 »

Quote from: mnahon on January 26, 2016, 23:51:35

The other thing that we don't really know is what each of these wipers looked like. We know that Tyler has one with logo-only on the top (are we certain that this is 113-820-00-45?) and we have the one that perry113 and I have, which is for sure a 113-820-05-45. I do think that these only differ from each other only slightly.

We don't really know what the 113-820-01-45 and 113-820-03-45 and possibly 113-820-04-45 looked like.

Since 113-820-05-45 was not mentioned in the 1972 catalog, it likely became the replacement part after end of production of the car.

I've received 2 answers from the classic center. One says that no replacement has been available for 9-10 years, and Tom said since more than 20 years.

I looked online for a picture of 000-824-47-26, and below is what I found. They look black.

I'm starting to think that this should just be left as one of the mysteries of the universe.

If my friend receives 000 824 47 26 wipers from the Mercedes dealer that are BLACK then I'm gonna tell em to send them BACK!

perry113 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2016, 00:36:33 »

Just as Meyer suspected the new wipers Mercedes Benz is supplying for Mercedes 230/250/280SL 000 824 47 26 are BLACK!!!!!!

See attached picture.

The wipers are inappropriate for the W113 from an aesthetic standpoint . Classic might as well not offer the option because I can't see anyone being happy with them.

Should send Roy Spencer a note to tell them that classic needs to look for a better option out their normal box.

So in the meantime it looks like Bud's is the viable option if you can't trace down the earlier original versions.

Tyler S · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2016, 03:09:30 »

Poking around on another forum I'm a member of (The Samba). The Porsche 356 and some Ghia's used an Identical blade with the exception that they are 2 inch shorter or 1 inch longer respectively. Same issue over there. NLA. Link with photo of a Porsche blade. http://www.classiccult.com/vw-beetle-porsche-356-bosch-wiper-blades-26cm-nos.html

perry113 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2016, 00:17:50 »

I was very lucky to have found a new old stock unused in the box single wiper marked 113 820 05 45 this week on line. It does not say BOSCH like Meyers and my set that is on my Ivory 65 230SL but has the insignia.
Looking for another matching wiper to make it a set.
I wonder what the difference was between this part # and the previous 113 820 04 45

mnahon · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:26:59 »

Hi Peter,

The plot thickens. If I understand your description, this wiper you got looks just like the one in Tyler's picture in Reply #10 of this thread---it has only the Bosch logo, and does not have the black plastic insert where the upper blade connects to the crow's foot. And yet it was in a box labeled 113 820 05 45. So this seems to indicate that all the blades that you, Tyler and I have, all shared the same part number, even though there were slight differences.

So we're still not sure what the '01', '03' and '04', and possibly '00' blades look like. My present theory is that at least some of these were the earlier chromed 'closed' (not skeletonized) blades.

Meyer

perry113 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2016, 05:12:09 »

Quote from: mnahon on January 30, 2016, 04:26:59

Hi Peter,

The plot thickens. If I understand your description, this wiper you got looks just like the one in Tyler's picture in Reply #10 of this thread---it has only the Bosch logo, and does not have the black plastic insert where the upper blade connects to the crow's foot. And yet it was in a box labeled 113 820 05 45. So this seems to indicate that all the blades that you, Tyler and I have, all shared the same part number, even though there were slight differences.

So we're still not sure what the '01', '03' and '04', and possibly '00' blades look like. My present theory is that at least some of these were the earlier chromed 'closed' (not skeletonized) blades.

Correct. Looks like Tyler's and looks like the plot thickens.

Meyer

perry113 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 31, 2016, 02:31:38 »

I continue to evaluate whats in my collection within my collection.
Here are pictures of the stainless Bosch 13inch wipers that reside on my 1970 280se coupe. They do not say Bosch on them but exhibit the Bosch insignia. Can anyone shed light on these? Are the original W111 and or another original version for 230SL? They are different from the 250SL 280SL wipers.

cabrioletturbo · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2016, 19:02:41 »

Quote from: perry113 on January 31, 2016, 02:31:38

I continue to evaluate whats in my collection within my collection.
Here are pictures of the stainless Bosch 13inch wipers that reside on my 1970 280se coupe. They do not say Bosch on them but exhibit the Bosch insignia. Can anyone shed light on these? Are the original W111 and or another original version for 230SL? They are different from the 250SL 280SL wipers.

The wiper you have on the second picture looks like 230SL wiper. It does show a little too shiny though - not sure if that was from the light.
The other wiper "skeleton" type looks like 280SL wiper.

Tyler S · « **Reply #34 on:** February 02, 2016, 23:06:15 »

Are we also sure that someone didn't replace their wipers long ago when they were readily available and put their old ones back in the box? Hence the different appearances with same part #. The boxes don't look to be sealed in any way but I could be wrong. A 1 or 2 year old wiper put back in a new box could definitely look NOS in today's light. Just a thought.

TheEngineer · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2016, 16:22:17 »

So, what kind of wipers are these that I have on my car?

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2016, 17:11:22 »

My wipers have no markings of any kind so, I can only assume they are reverse engineered. Oh well my car is no longer original then who cares the wipers do a great job if and when I need then.

I had many parts reverce engineered and for the most part they always turned out better and stronger for the application I used them on during my 22 years of my heavy rotating equipment machinery business.

Besides, people like Bosch don't pay us to advertise there name do they now

so if it does not show Bosch on yours be happy as long as they work fine

Cheers Dieter

mnahon · « **Reply #37 on:** April 26, 2016, 12:10:14 »

Those look like the ones that Peter showed in the original post on this thread, and that I had in reply #9. Basically correct for a 280SL. They may not have been originally installed on the car, but would have been the OEM replacement in the early 70s. They have only slight differences from the ones Tyler showed that are likely original.

As for getting worked up over original parts, I guess everyone has their own line that they draw about what's important and what's not. Whether it's sufficient for the part to work, vs being original could be applied to other parts, like the gas cap, the mirrors, the radio, the wheels, the engine, etc.

TheEngineer · « **Reply #38 on:** April 28, 2016, 16:57:00 »

Oh! I have a wonderful post about "the radio": I took the radio out from my '95 E320.
It has "weather-band", tape and six CD. It is wonderful. And I receive comments all the time that it is not correct for my 280SL. But I smile and listen to my oldies playing on CD

neelyrc · « **Reply #39 on:** May 01, 2016, 22:52:02 »

When I bought my 280SL as a new vehicle it was not with the idea that it would become a classic. In those days it was just a wonderful car. Most replacement parts were bought from the Mercedes dealer as it was felt that they were supplying the best replacements for such a fine machine.

However, when purchasing something as common as wiper blades from the dealer or from Bosch or others there was little thought about the new purchase being precisely as on the new vehicle at delivery. I didn't particularly like the "skinny" blades originally on the car and more robust ones were more appealing to me and I have used some, even black ones.

I have a set of blades that I believe are the original ones. I read through all the posts on this thread and looked at all the photographs and mine are slightly different. A couple of photos are attached. These have the Bosch logo but not the word Bosch stamped on them. Does anyone else have a like set on their 280SL?

mbzse · « **Reply #40 on:** June 18, 2016, 15:55:12 »

Quote from: mnahon

The other thing that we don't really know is what each of these wipers looked like.../... we have the one that perry113 and I have, which is for sure a 113-820-05-45

I can contribute some additional pictures of a NOS 0545 wiper; comes in a welded bag never opened.
See attached. The text "BOSCH" is stamped on the side of the area next to the mount for the arm, on other side text plus Bosch logo. Very similar to the one Perry113 shows in his post; however the joints have small black plastic inserts, and you can see that the attachment for the wiper arm is a slightly larger (non-split) black plastic part.

The inserts in the joints are same as shown in your picture Meyer (reply No13), what differs is the shape of the plastic attachment for the arm
/Hans S

Shvegel · « **Reply #41 on:** June 19, 2016, 15:38:57 »

Keep in mind that for judging purposes I believe the standard is as supplied OR whatever Mercedes is currently supplying.

mbpaul · « **Reply #42 on:** June 19, 2016, 21:44:50 »

Just to add to the confusion, here are pictures of a wiper blade I took out of my MB parts (junk?) bin. Yes, I save everything. I have both but this one is in better shape than the other one. I have a 1966 230SL produced in the later part of 1965 and I have had it since new. I do not know if these are the original or not but I suspect they are. I do not think anyone has shown pictures like these. Notice the Bosch symbol and the word Germany on them. Inside the frame directly below the Bosch symbol, there is "2,3" stamped on it but I could not get a picture of this. Nothing else that I can find. Also, no plastic anyplace, all bright steel. Magnet sticks to everything except the rubber.

Regardless if these are original or not, I am not going to use them. I want to have wipers that work on my car.

mnahon · « **Reply #43 on:** June 20, 2016, 02:38:57 »

Paul, yes, I think the ones you show are original to the earlier W113s. They are shinier and more solid looking than the later 'skeletonized' wipers. If you want to use them, you probably just need to change the inserts.

Hans, yours are interesting, and make clear that even with the same part number, there were small design changes along the way.

Shvegel, see reply #27 in this thread. Mercedes is currently supplying a black wiper. I doubt any judges would accept that.

Meyer

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Author Topic: Wiper Identification (Read 20895 times)