Author Topic: conversion kit 5 speed Getrag (Read 21630 times)

Peter h · « **on:** May 15, 2015, 14:07:17 »

My friend Wolfgang has its conversion kit 5 speed Getrag finished.
He will offer it later to buy.
As always, Wolfgang has thought of everything, even to the 5-speed shift knob.
All in German, but you can translate.
http://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/5%20Gang%20Getriebe%20Mercedes%20Pagode%20W113.htm

Peter

philmas · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2015, 11:39:04 »

Looks good!
However, as my German is so-so, I didn't understand if he can supply the drive gear for the speedo, which AFAIK is a rare bird...

Dave H · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2015, 14:59:51 »

Hi Peter

I apologise my German is not very good.
I google translated part of the article into english and i am very intersested in the following.
It says,
"A further conversion kit for vehicles that already have a built Getrag 5-speed gearbox, but with its transmission crossmember suspension are unhappy and have not ruined its trapezoidal plate with the Trennjäger. With the following components:
A Gear carrier with bolts and accessories."

I think your freind Wolfgang has discovered a way of using the existing gearbox support plate.
From the pictures this looks very exiting.
I am fitting the Getrag conversion at the moment and i would rather use my existing plate if possible.
Can you please find out more detail for me.

Dave

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2015, 15:05:42 »

Is the Gertrag only found in Europe?
Can it be found in America.
Tom M

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2015, 17:11:15 »

The Getrag can indeed be found all over the world.
I have been working with Mark (MKBULL) to improve the cross-member and am pretty sure that the new version is perfectly capable of replacing the original plate.

As for mechanical speedo drive:

Getrags with the mechanical drive are getting hard to find, and the parts to convert to a mechanical drive are NLA from BMW.
I bought a product from the USA, as mentioned on here some time back, but found it to be wholly lacking.
In conjunction with a friend who is an electronics design engineer we have developed a new product that enables the speedo to be driven RELIABLY from a hall sensor.
We've now fitted three with success and are in the process of refining the construction before releasing details.

WRe · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2015, 17:22:50 »

Hi,
Wolfgang has developed a conversion kit to use an old BMW Getrag 5-speed gearbox in a Pagoda, but you need your own gearbox and an adapted drive shaft, the rest comes with the kit.
These old BMW gearboxes can be found at ebay.
For those who already have a 5-speed Getrag gearbox and are not happy with the modified/disimproved support plate he will also offer another support plate including bolts and accessories.
Both will come with an installation plan on CD.
Up to now there are no hints for the speedo connection but if you look at his videos the speedo works well.
...WRe

P.S. speedo correction not speedo connection

Peter h · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2015, 18:53:25 »

Wolfgang means old 5 speed Getrag with mechanical speedometer exit, as already described. He will soon put exact pictures.
For me it comes too late, but others can use the rebuilding sentence.
Peter

JamesL · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2015, 20:58:49 »

Us poor saps with only two pedals are being discriminated against

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2015, 11:31:59 »

Wre
If on ebay what do you look for to find the correct 5 speed that you guys are talking about.
Tom

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2015, 11:48:04 »

There's reams of information on this site about this.

Dave H · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2015, 12:02:28 »

Theres one on e bay in the USA at the moment.
I bought mine from the same guy a few months back "aardvark racing "
The guy shipped it to the UK for me. Nice guy to deal with.
It has the mechanical speedo drive like mine which is the holy grail.
search e bay no 361186206094
$895 buy it now price.
Its a bargain for somebody.
32 people watching ...be quick.

Dave H · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2015, 19:55:11 »

Getrag has just sold....did anyone on here buy it ??

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2015, 10:26:09 »

Yes I did.
Tom M

Dave H · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2015, 16:17:02 »

Nice one Tom.
If i spot any more correct type Getrags on E BAY i will post them on here for the rest of the group..
You got lucky with the mechanical speedo drive allready fitted.

Hi Peter
I would still love to know how your freind Wolfgang managed to use the original gearbox support plate in his conversion.
It looks fantastic.

Peter h · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2015, 18:33:09 »

http://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/5%20Gang%20Getriebe%20Mercedes%20Pagode%20W113.htm

now you can see more............
Peter

Dave H · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2015, 11:43:29 »

Thats a neat solution.
Does Wolfgang supply a modified support plate or do you modify your own?
What is the price of the modified plate plus bolts / spacers ?
Does this method use the original Mercedes rubber mount?
Thank you in advance.
Dave

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2015, 12:04:58 »

Looks like he simply cuts the plate to fit around the getrag mounting bracket.
Basically it looks like a modified version of what MKBULL already sells.

GGR · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2015, 12:07:20 »

I fitted a 265 Getrag with Mark Turnbull's bracket first, and I then fitted the original plate back. I have seen a great difference in shell rigidity as the hard top was doing all kind of noises on degraded surfaces, but not anymore. My suspension has stiffer springs so the issue must have somehow been magnified, but fitting that plate back really made a huge difference.

On my car the transmission is about 2 inches forward compared to the normal set-up as the M117 V8 is shorter. As a result the Gertag 265 clears the plate, which I think is not the case with the normal set-up.

I'm not sure the system shown in the pictures, with the spacers and then with an additional stripe of metal on the side, will ensure the same rigidity as with the original set-up. Reason being is that most of of the strength between two parts bolted up together is thanks to the pressure around the bolt. With spacers that surface is way smaller which may allow for some flexing. I would have rather designed an aluminum spacer with the same footprint as the original plate. Even though, rigidity is mainly obtained by the cross designed by the four angles of the plates. Having that cross lower may also introduce some room for more flexing.

In any case, the best solution, whatever it is, will most seemingly be the a compromise.

RonB · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2015, 01:30:18 »

What year are we talking about the BMW tranny?

I found a mid 90's with the speedo which is taken of the rear?

Is there a way to add a conversion to the tranny for spedo?

Garry · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2015, 11:05:51 »

Gordon??,

Ring Colin Fern Motors (Stickandrudderman) who can give you the Mark Bull details you seek

Garry
Membership Admin

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2015, 12:09:12 »

I am working on a solution to the problem of speedo drives. I currently have two cars running with a prototype system and we are working out the snags before releasing the final product.

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2015, 14:49:34 »

Quote from: WRe on May 19, 2015, 17:22:50

Hi,
Wolfgang has developed a conversion kit to use an old BMW Getrag 5-speed gearbox in a Pagoda, but you need your own gearbox and an adapted drive shaft, the rest comes with the kit.
These old BMW gearboxes can be found at ebay

WRe,

My daughter has my former 1987 BMW 535 is with a 5 gear standard shift, she now likes to sell the car since she got herself a new VW. I am wondering if this 5 Speed gearbox can be used on a Pagoda? The gears shift so smooth I still love this car, if I not had three cars already I would take this car back and restore it like new.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2015, 16:03:59 »

Quote from: stickandrudderman on June 16, 2015, 12:09:12

I am working on a solution to the problem of speedo drives.

On the issue/question/problem of speedometer drives and accuracy. I have no reason to doubt that the speedometer in my car is original. I have no reason to doubt that when rebuilt by Palo Alto 15 years ago, that they left it "as is" and didn't change anything internal to something wrong. I am running original size wheels (14 x 6) and original size tires (185HR14).

I just took a long highway trip, first with a new Garmin. When reading 80 MPH on the speedo, the garmin (and a speed application on my iPhone) both indicated 74 MPH. RPM was just hovering around 4K.

Shvegel · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2015, 21:15:39 »

Rolf-Dieter,
Regrettably the 87 535is is a Getrag 260/6 gearbox. just in case someone changed transmissions at some point the Getrag 265 you would need has a removable bell housing the correct transmission for the 87 does not so a quick trip under the car would tell the story.

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2015, 22:12:23 »

Hello Shvegel,

I purchased this car in 1987 and it has the original transmission. My daughter will find someone suitable to purchase this car, she likes to find a good home for it. As I said before three cars do me fine it would have been nice if I could have used the transmission oh well I will stick with what I have in my 280. Thanks for the heads up!

WRe · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2015, 07:11:19 »

Hi,
here you find some information about Getrag, their gearboxes and in which car you find them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag.
e.g. the Getrag 265 — 5-speed
BMW E23
BMW E24
BMW E28
Opel Monza
Opel Senator A
1986-1992 BMW M3
1987-1990 BMW 320is
...WRe

Garry · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2015, 08:32:24 »

It has to be one with the dogleg. Not all 265’s are equal.

Khurram Darugar · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2015, 09:44:23 »

Quote from: Garry on June 17, 2015, 08:32:24

It has to be one with the dogleg. Not all 265’s are equal.

Hi Garry I have the standard non dogleg 265 in my car. Dogleg is probably more fun to drive though!
Kay

teahead · « **Reply #28 on:** December 16, 2020, 19:01:38 »

FYI, regarding the kit sold here:

http://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/5%20Gang%20Getriebe%20Mercedes%20Pagode%20W113.htm

They will ONLY sell within the EU I believe.

If anyone is interested in getting this kit to the USA (or maybe even Australia), my friend Keshav in Germany ships out a lot of BMW parts to me in the US (Seattle) that I normally can't get, for a small handling fee.

I told him about this kit and how they won't ship to the USA directly and he said no problem.

BTW, I still have my Getrag 265 for sale for those in the States willing to convert.

teahead · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2020, 18:57:08 »

Picture of what you get w/the kit:

Don't think it includes the bellhousing.

BTW, got an answer regarding costs (does not include shipping kit from my friend Keshav in DE to USA):

Conversion kit 741€
Shortened drive shaft (highly recommended) 251€
Shipping to my friend in Germany: 16€

A lot cheaper than that £12k 6-speed kit (or the Polish kit).

I would do this in a second if my wife's Pagoda was a stick shift.

sandcrab59 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 17, 2020, 19:53:35 »

I purchased my kit many years ago and it was shipped to me by a fellow member in Germany.
Gernold installed one a few years ago and had a few changes which he sent his changes to Germany.
I have not heard from anyone (Germany) about the changes that Gernold made. Germany does not speak English so that is a problem.
So if it involved changes, Germany owes me the parts if any.

Also it does not include the bell housing.
The complete kit was Just about $1,000 a few years ago.
Tom M

WRe · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2020, 06:56:15 »

Hi,
see here: http://w113.eu/Shop/Roadbook%20Shop.html.
...WRe

pagodapete · « **Reply #32 on:** April 30, 2021, 18:53:05 »

Hi, I know it's been over a year but do still have the Getrag for sale?

teahead · « **Reply #33 on:** April 30, 2021, 19:12:36 »

Nope.

Check ebay or e9coupe.com classifieds

cfm65@me.com · « **Reply #34 on:** October 07, 2022, 17:24:36 »

Hi Guys,
I drilled the spot welds from the stiffener plate and removed the doubler, made up some transmission mountings for the Getrag and it seems to be working just fine.

teahead · « **Reply #35 on:** October 07, 2022, 18:05:09 »

FYI, why would you want a dogleg with a 1:1 in 5th gear?

The Pagode has a final drive ratio of 3.69 or 4.0.1 I think.

The whole point of a 5-speed is to have overdrive so you're not doing 4000 RPM at 70mph, but probably 3000 instead.

Dave H · « **Reply #36 on:** October 08, 2022, 03:33:44 »

I used Mark Turnbulls kit and support but then modified a spare gearbox support plate for a more pleasant look .

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Author Topic: conversion kit 5 speed Getrag (Read 21630 times)

Khurram Darugar