European 230 SL -1964- car with "Phönix" tires on the data card

[Jkalplus1]

Trying to bring the car closest I can to original, I am thinking the Coker Phoenix reproduction tires are what will be closest.  I read the archived posts on the topic, but I am not sure if this "Phönix" tire mentioned on the data card means the tires had the thin whitewall like the reproduction from Coker have. 

I like the look of the thin ww, but if some experts could weigh in, it seems to me the white walls were an option (641) the customer ordered, and even if my data card mentions "Phönix" tires they were in fact black wall tires (unlike the Coker Phoenix) and would have been whitewall if the 641 option had been selected in the options list?

I get the impression the original Phönix tire could be either all black or with whitewall, but unable to confirm this through internet search or in here.

I also read in the archives the whitewall was typically ordered on US cars, and very infrequently selected by european customers (unfashionable).  Can anyone amplify?

I appreciate your time,
J

[Jowe]

Hi J,

On my '64 the ww is an option on the data card. It seems that Phönix had both black and ww. See http://www.cokertire.com/brands/phoenix-mercedes.html

Johan

[Jkalplus1]

I really appreciate your taking the time to confirm this, thank you!
J.

[Bonnyboy]

When I was researching whether or not to keep white walls on my car, I read that the White Walls were a mostly an American Experience and other places emulated the experience by putting white walls on their cars so Mercedes started offering them as an option fairly quickly, but for home market cars, black walls were the norm.  I wish I could find the article again but I seem to remember that if you were to find white walls on a home market car it would most likely be an automatic car rather than the standards which were purchased more for drivers rather than as a car that the wife would drive as well.   

Its all about fashion.   I had this conversation with an old Swiss german mechanic (who has since passed) years ago when I was tire shopping and he said that he rememberd seeing two distinct types of pagodas in the 60's  - the standard tranny car with leather interior and no power steering or airconditioning (blackwalls) where the top never went up and the car was "driven"  and then there was the pampered luxury cruiser with airconditioning, power steering and automatic tranny (whitewalls) and hardtop on most of the time.    He figured my Euro car was ordered to be driven hard and that blackwalls would be fitting. 

     

[ja17]

Here is a picture of an original Firestone Phoenix tire, wheel  and weight off a 70 280SL.

[Jkalplus1]

Gents, thanks for the invaluable insight.  Joe, thanks for the pictures.  I have been unable to find a picture on the internet of an original Phoenix tire that did not have a thin white wall.  What I read in here seem to point they were available in both black and whitewall, but I cannot find evidence they were available without.  Would the original Continental be the blackwall option, and the Phoenix for clients ordering whitewalls (in the context of a European model)?   Has anyone ever seen an original Phoenix all black on our cars?
J

[Shvegel]

I am guessing the only reason tires from The United States were shipped across the Atlantic would be that white walls were not available in Germany. The only caveat being that at the time they were supposed to be a revolutionary design.  I would also search the board for the Coker Phoenix as well. I remember the reviews being pretty luke warm in terms of handling etc.