Soft Top Release Latch--big trouble.

[mdsalemi]

Saturday night I put my car on a show field, put the soft top up, and covered the car for display on Sunday.  As per usual, I had to slam the rear of the soft top down so that the rear could latch.

Lo and behold Sunday morning when I go to release the soft top in the multi step procedure to completely lower the top, the release behind the driver's seat was flopping around and can turn nearly 360 degrees.  It is NOT attached to anything any more.

Thankfully, Cleveland expert Ted Gottfried was in attendance, and between some phone consultations, and some screwdrivers, we were able to a) pop the rear latch for the soft top; b) pop the passenger side of the tonneau/soft top compartment cover.  However we were not able to release the driver's side of the soft top cover.

Without all three released I can't get the top up and out of the way of its storage compartment, and the cover released to see what happened.  Something broke, or something fell off.

Any ideas on how to release the driver's side of the soft top cover?  We tried various tools for over an hour, trying to catch some latch but had no luck.  Right now the car has got a towel stuck in the right side to prevent the storage compartment from accidentally re-latching, and the rear of the soft top is released and not latched.

[rmmchl]

michael. i accidentally shut my soft top lid without the handle on, while installing my carpet to that section. After 2 days of (no luck) the only thing that saved me was simply putting the handle back on, even without it being bolted on. I know you said yours turns 360 degrees. Maybe the bolt to hold the handle on broke. It is inside the compartment. Please try to push the handle all the way in while turning it. It might release. Mine did. I tried the "in the trunk release way to release the compartment latch" That technique only released the passenger side on mine. It would not release the drivers side. Without using that handle, i just don't know of a way. That mechanism is so strong, an instrument like a screwdriver just won't force it to release. With the chrome caps on there , it's hard to do anything with this mechanism. I'm sorry. I know what you are going through.

[thelews]

At least it would match your car!

[thelews]

Whatever method you try, have someone push down on the lid while you're trying to release it so that you relieve pressure on the latch enabling it to release more easily.

[Cees Klumper]

I don't have my car here with me to check, but can't you take off the chrome caps at the front ends and would that perhaps afford some relevant access to pry things loose?

[rmmchl]

The chrome caps can't be taken off unless the lid is open. There are 2 small screws that are accessed with the top lid open. This brings up what could be a helpful thread.  Maybe we all should not put the 2 little screws on. Just the one big screw. This would allow us to access the lid mechanism by being able to remove the chrome caps.

[Jordan]

Is there not an access to the release lever inside the trunk?

[Garry]

There is an hole just below the fitting accessed through the trunk.

see
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Tops/SoftTop#BrokenHandle

[rmmchl]

Michael, I have an idea.  First unsrew the large screw on the chrome cap on the one side.  Then take a dremel tool and cut the other side of the chrome cap where the other 2 screws are attached. You can then lift off the chrome cap.  You will then have access to see what is broken, and you should be able to release the lid. You can buy another chrome cap  used for around $75.00 -I think this could be a solution to this problem

[mdsalemi]

Garry, Jordan--we were able to slide the mechanism to the driver's (L) side, and were able to first pop the rear of the soft top latch, then the R side of the cover.

This bolt mechanism is all the way to the left, and we were not able to budge the L side of the cover.

I took the car to my mechanic today; they were just working on a similar assembly so the issue is fresh. Their body guy is pretty resourceful, too.

How does that handle/latch hold on?  Though the lighting was not great (any my older eyes...) I was not able to find a set screw.  How is that affixed to the mechanism?  Splined like a window winder or something else?

I think if we get the cover open, the damage will be easy to assess and replace or repair.  Just one latch needs to be released.

Might there be an access hole behind the carpet?

(cutting ANY metal is a last resort...and cutting the chrome cap is the very last resort.  $75 maybe, but add $200 for a nice chrome plate job... )

[66andBlue]

Michael,
John L's pry bar may not be far off a workable solution.
Here are photos showing what you are dealing with.
You wrote the release behind the driver's seat was flopping around and can turn nearly 360 degrees. That means that the lever to which the cable wire (on the bottom) and the push rod (on top) are attached came loose and now the release lever can freely inside the bracket. See parts photo.
To get access to the push lever that needs to be moved towards the rear of the car you need to do the following:
1. Take the wheel well cover off.  It may be a bit more tricky with the chrome cap on (which you cannot remove since the screws are on the back side) but it can be done.
2. From the inside punch out the rubber plug to get access to the compartment.
3. Use a pry bar - something like the one shown in the staged photo  - to wedge between the push bar and the lever and push while someone presses the lid down as John wrote.
No guarantee - but it could work!

[rmmchl]

handle is connected with one washer and bolt

[Garry]

The LH cars may be a bit different to the RH cars, but without my car here, my recollection was that the handle released a hook type lever on the (RHD) passenger side at the same time through a cable releasing the centre latch and then the cable went on to the the right hook latch.

Is it only the handle that has disengaged and if so then the release will probably have to be via the cable to both left and right from the access hole.

 (added from Alfreds pix's) the second access hole trick I see.

I am going out to my car later today so will have a look.

Garry

[enochbell]

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/index.php/cat/c3_Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagoda--R113-W113-.html#cat_3115

Wish I could help, maybe you can figure something out from this exploded view.

g

[bogeyman]

Michael:
The handle is attached to a rod that is threaded on the far end for the nut and washers to attach it to the bracket.
Just before the threads are 2 flat spots on opposite sides of the rod - these thread through the lever that actuates the cable (on the bottom) to actuate the middle soft top release and the right side lid release.
The top of that lever actuates the left side release via an arm. Alfred's first pic shows it best.
One of two things has happened to yours, either the rod has rounded off the flat spots and is turning freely (unlikely) or the nut has come loose and your handle/rod has disengaged from the lever (likely).
It would take a great deal of force to actuate the lever from below with a pry bar of some sort. I doubt it is possible.
When the handle/rod disengages from the lever, it moves a small amount, far enough so you cannot reengage it simply by pushing in on the handle, but if you can gain access from the wheel well below as Alfred suggested, I think you should be able to move it enough to work the handle back into position and release the lock.

I took mine apart and this is the only way I can see to get it released. I tried to move the cable from the center position but I couldn't get the lever to move at all that way.

Good luck.

[rmmchl]

the handle will work without the nut being attached. I know this to be a fact. Before any drastic steps , please try to push the handle in and engage the stem and see if it  turns to release the lid. I believe the other best  option is cutting off the cap.

[Benz Dr.]

The LT side release is all done by linkages while the center and Rt side are released by the cable. If the cable breaks ( which is fairly common ) the LT side will release but not the center or RT side as long as the handle is connected. 

We have been able to open the LT side with a longer bar that was bent in just the right way. I found that studying the latch on my own car gave me the right dimensions for my release bar we made. Not sure what we did with it since it was several years ago but it worked.

[mbzse]

.../....my recollection was that the handle released a hook type lever on the (RHD) passenger side at the same time through a cable releasing the centre latch and then the cable went on to the the right hook latch. Is it only the handle that has disengaged and if so then the release will probably have to be via the cable to both left and right from the access hole..../...

Here is a web film clip, showing a self-made metal bar tool for the soft top cover emergency opening, via the slits in the chrome covers on the B-pillars
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/deckel.mpg
/Hans in Sweden

.

[mdsalemi]

Hans, the video is encouraging--but unfortunately doesn't show enough detail; just that it can be done.

I hope that some of these tricks will work however.

[66andBlue]

Michael,
take a look at the fellows description on his homepage. I know you don't like to see a German text    but the photos tell the story.
Especially the one showing his tool. He writes that it does not need the kink in the middle, it can be straight, but the length is necessary.
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/Notoeffnung%20Verdeckkasten%20Mercedes%20Pagode%20W%20113.htm
I had trouble on my Mac opening the movie clip but he has two others in the AVI format:
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/schnapper1.avi
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/schnapper2.avi
Hope this helps.

[thelews]

could make one of those in 5 minutes, hardly needs to have a nice wooden handle.  Good find.

[66andBlue]

Indeed, he writes that the wooden ball is only to protect the palm.
Since my 280SL is sitting 75% finished in my garage I could check this out and I believe it will work as shown.
But it looks to me that the 90 degree bent at the end cannot be longer then indicated.

[thelews]

But it looks to me that the 90 degree bent at the end cannot be longer then indicated.

The diameter of the rod and the length of the internal bend are the critical measurements.  The rest is personal.

[mdsalemi]

This may do the trick.  Not a good find--really an excellent find!

Whoa, not so fast...I think below that photo of the tool, and the tool in position, there are disparaging remarks about the person who created, Mr. Know-It-All, and those people claim it is mathematically impossible to make it fit and work.  Hmmm...

[IXLR8]

Mike--

With the top out of the way, it seems like you should be able to go in through the trunk hinge opening and grab the latch piece (the moveable part) with, say, a bent coathanger and pull it loose.



the other Joe

[IXLR8]

Hi Mike--

To add to my earlier post, I seem to recall that you purchased a small TV camera to see inside cylinders, etc.  Maybe this could be useful to you in seeing inside the soft top case.

Otherwise, try the access through the hinge opening. If you crawl in the trunk like Jimmy Hoffa, you should have good access.


the other Joe

[Benz Dr.]

The diameter of the rod and the length of the internal bend are the critical measurements.  The rest is personal.

According to the picture, it's like, 5mm ( dick ).  I guess that would be kind of a personal thing.

[mdsalemi]

Problem solved.

AND THE WINNER IS...DAVID WILLIAMS OF ONTARIO!!!

(second place to IXLR8, the other Joe.  Though, a coat hanger isn't nearly strong enough...)

David suggested going into the latch area from the trunk hinge with something akin to a fireplace poker.  For those unfamiliar with such a tool of the great white north, it is a long rod with a handle, and a hook on the end.  David stuck this in the hinge area, deep into the latch area, grabbed onto the appropriate parts, and pulled.  Voila.

I had indicated that I took my car into my friendly mechanic.  They determined that access from the top--chrome cap--was fraught with the potential to damage chrome or paint, as you do need a bit of leverage to pop the release.  My chrome is nice, and so is my paint, and these things scared the guys back into the trunk.

What had happened is the plate that is affixed to the end of the release lever had come off.  The nut had loosened and fallen off, and then the plate came off the end of the lever.  Thus, the lever did not control anything.  The body shop guys put it all back together with the wavy washer and some medium strength Loctite so it will not happen again.

Lesson to be learned here?  Check this assembly on your car and ensure your nut is not loose; if it is, tighten it up and consider Loctite.  Also, might be useful to attempt to release the latch with a tool in case you ever need to...access from the trunk with a steel rod of some kind, bent with a hook on the end.  It's a whole lot easier to try this with the soft top compartment cover OPEN so you can see what you are doing, then in a panic with it locked shut.

[thelews]

Surprised you didn't feel some looseness in the lever before the plate finally fell off.  Glad you resolved the issue.  Maybe better go through your car and tighten up fasteners.  I had to on my 190 SL when I got it, all kinds of loose fasteners.

[mdsalemi]

Surprised you didn't feel some looseness in the lever before the plate finally fell off.  Glad you resolved the issue.  Maybe better go through your car and tighten up fasteners.  I had to on my 190 SL when I got it, all kinds of loose fasteners.

Lever felt fine.

I have always had the suspicion that a lot of the world's problems are caused by loose nuts, bolts, and screws.  I will indeed give a once over to the car this year.

[49er]

Michael,
 I have been following this thread and am glad you got your problem fixed. One worry I have always had with these cars is one, the hood release won't operate and two, the soft top cover won't open. I keep the cable for the hood latch well lubricated and have now have checked all the nuts/cables on the ST cover. You were lucky that the top was out of the compartment as it would have been a lot more difficult if the top was still stowed.

John

[Jordan]

I thought David was in Florida.  And what is he doing with a fireplace poker in Florida?  I didn't think they even had fireplaces in Florida. 

[mdsalemi]

One worry I have always had with these cars is one, the hood release won't operate and two, the soft top cover won't open.

John 49er,

I guess I never worried much about it until it happened.  I am thinking that "emergency release" cables could be clandestinely installed, and fabricated out of bicycle brake cables.  You could put these in place, tuck away the ends and if something were to go wrong with the system, you'd have an emergency backup.  It IS rocket science, as no man-rated rocket ever went up without some kind of redundant system, yes?  So, if your 40+ year old soft top latch cable or assembly failed--or hood release, just seek out the emergency and pull.  Something like this exists in modern trunks, you know--in case you accidentally lock your kid in the trunk (or vice versa!), you/they have an emergency way out??

[Benz Dr.]

A loose nut on the end of the release handle is more common that you might think. I check stuff like that if the hard top is off the car.

[aalto]

This was a hugely helpful discussion, as I had the same problem.  I also had the added challenge of having the top down and stowed away, so getting access to the exact right spot of was very difficult. Solution to the problem was to visually locate the mechanism through the hard top installation hole on the top (with the aid of a good flashlight) and have a friend use a long, sturdy but narrow hook to grab it according to instruction. Could not find anything suitable ready, so built a tool from a 5mm hook, 1m long threaded rod + makeshift handle (all joined by appropriate nuts). It took a strong pull to work, so a handle was necessary, but it's open now! 

[beek]

Your easy method worked!

Specifically, the handle did work, after I had pushed it in as far as possible, even though the nut was not attached.  It seemed to help to have someone push down on the lid (to relieve pressure on the latch, so that it could release more easily) while I turned the handle.

Thanks for your suggestion!  It saved me A LOT of work.

[waltklatt]

Michael,
Were you able to open the top case cover?
Walter

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Walter,

It was a original post from 2012, and since then I saw Michaeal and his car last September 2015 at PUB and all was well as you can see in the attached photo.

Dieter

(Michael's car in red mine in blue).

[waltklatt]

Hi Rolf,
Thanks for the reply.
Didnt see the date from the posting.  Too bleary eyed this morning.
Thanks and glad all is well again.

Walter

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Walter,

It's still a great thread and good tips if it should ever happen to anyone else's car

Dieter

BTW, Michael's car and mine are only 3 VIN numbers apart ... I took the photo so the two could exchange stories (whispers) as to where they all have been since that December day in 1968 when they rolled off the assembly line to start there journey to America. It took 47 years for them to meet again, I thought it deserved a photo or two.

[waltklatt]

Hello Rolf,

True to that, it is a good source of info for the next person, who becomes stuck with the same problem.
I too had a 1968 280SL (sold 1995), early number 618.  Is that close to yours and Michaels?  As far as I know, it's located on the Eastern Shore of MD.

Walter

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Walter PM send