Author Topic: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project  (Read 102136 times)

66andBlue

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The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« on: September 29, 2011, 02:04:04 »
About 4 months ago Andy "Drewtee" posted here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14653.0
"I was wondering if there was enough interest on this forum to source a company to manufacture a near replica of the original firewall pad?" and the response was very much positive.
Since then a few of us – Garry Marks, Tom Colitt (from Classic Autos LA), Dave Gallon (Gallon Restorations) and I - took up the challenge and attached is our summary of this effort.
Where are we at this point?
The old stock firewall material has been delivered to the die maker for cutting out the new pads and by the end of next week we should be able to provide detail photos of the parts in a set.
What will a set cost?
It has always been our goal to provide a product for our members (but not for the general public) that would be in line with the prices that commercial vendors ask for the current jute-backed replacement pads and we are very hopeful that we can stay close to this target.  However, we need to wait until the prototypes are finished and tested before we can announce the final price, but we do hope to ship out the first pre-paid sets in about 3 - 4 weeks.
We have written the attached summary describing the rationals and reasons that guided the development of this new product that we have created. If you are interested in purchasing a set of the newly replicated firewall pads then we urge you to read the attached description and afterwards, if you are still keen to buy a set (or two), please reply to this thread again.
We welcome your comments, and please, feel free to ask questions.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 02:12:50 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

stratmanedh

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 02:16:40 »
Id buy a set for my lhd 1970 280sl. Mine does have a foam backing currently
Thanks for the  detailed hard work!
1970 280 sl. Dark red 542, cognac  MB Tex 8006

ctm14

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 04:47:29 »
Hi Alfred,

  Nice work by you and all the others involved. As we recently discussed I have recommenced my pagoda search.  The cars I see often have the  reproduction leather grain material so in anticipation I would like to be added to the list and would like two (2) LHD pads. Based upon the expected release timing I may be the only buyer without a car but better to be safe than sorry.

Thanks
Chris
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 16:46:24 by ctm14 »
Chris Miller - San Diego, CA
1969 280SL (Italian)
ZF 5-Speed 396G Med. Blue Metallic

JamesL

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 08:02:27 »
That's TOP TOP work chaps. Brilliant and a great summary of where we are and how you got here.

I am not sure how much material you have or what your reproductive capacities are/will be but I find myself wanting an RHD set (both sides of the firewall) simply to support the initiative! :o

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 10:47:20 by Tosh »
James L
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

280SL71

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 10:07:43 »
Richard's Ole Beige needs a new firewall pad...the one in the car now looks like painted tar...no real surface texture and not much backing. I'd post a photo but I don't want viewers to get sick at the sight of the pathetic excuse for a pad. Those who were at PUB were polite enough not to laugh.

The car is a LHD Euro model so a cut-out for the Firewall ID plate would be a nice plus.

Here is my official sign-up for one Pad, please.

Question:

Will a limited skill amateur be able to remove the old pad and install the new without special tools?  or does this mean a visit to the auto shop?

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).
Can be seen at www.panix.com/~rmadison/mercedes.shtml

Garry

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 10:44:43 »
Richard

Alfred and David did have a discussion about possibly having an assembly tool and asked Tom and I our feelings on the subject.  Tom and I believed that anyone that could fit the existing after market pads could fit the replicated OEM pad that has been developed.

  However, Alfred and Dave looked at a possible way that could simplify the process and whilst still under discussion at this point, may well be written into some instructions to be included. As a minimum, I believe anyone with minor maintenance skills would be able to put the pad together and on the vehicle.  Anyone that has reservations on their skills could easily have a restorer or upholsterer fit it for them.

Garry
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 11:36:08 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery
2005 MB A200
2008 MB SLK 55 AMG
2016 VW T6 4x4 pop top Camper
2020 Volvo XC40 Electric Recharge, on order.

Norm

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 11:49:40 »
I'm ready whenever they are available.

1966 230

Any added instructions will be welcomed!

Norm
Norm
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George Des

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 12:14:06 »
I would like to purchase a set for my 230Sl

George Desiderio

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 13:22:20 »
Count me in for 1 LHD set.
(I wouldn't mind a piece of 1 foot by 1 foot also if possible. I want to try repair before replacement. But I will buy the full set too.)
Thank you for all your hard work !!
1970 280 SL Automatic, USA version, Grey-Blue (906G/906G), Blue leather (245)
1968 SS396 Camaro Convertible (owned since 1977 -- my first car :D)
1984 Porsche Euro Carrera coupe, LSD, SlateBlueMet/Blue
1998 BMW M-Rdstr Estoril Blue
1970 280 SL Automatic, Anthracite Grey-173G, Red Interior-132 - sold

bogeyman

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 14:52:27 »
Alfred, one thing I am not clear on.
Is this diamond pattern material you found something that is currently being produced and readily available or is a one time purchase item?
Will we be able to have a continuous supply or one shot?

Thanks
Rick Bogart
1970 280SL Black(040)/Parchment
1969 280SL Silver(180)/Green
1993 500E
1972 350SL
1995 E320 Cabrio

114015

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 14:58:04 »
Dear Garry, Tom, Dave and Alfred,

Thank you so much for your superb effort, hard workon this and brilliant outcome. I could not praise your efforts more than I do.

Please count me in for two LHD sets.
And I would also like to have some "by the meter" (non pre-cut) for the under-dash insulation.

Thanks a lot!

Achim

Achim
(Germany)

fmen3366

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 15:01:41 »
Hi All,

Kudos for the effort and the resulting much anticipated product. Count me in. I'd recommend Paypal for easy transaction.

Andy M.
70 280SL

Jordan

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 15:44:23 »
Thank you Garry, Tom, Alfred and Dave for all your efforts in putting this together.  You can definitely put me down for a LHD set for my 230SL.
Marcus
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Jonny B

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 15:52:05 »
Count me in for a set for LHD.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904

66andBlue

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 15:56:22 »
....  Will we be able to have a continuous supply or one shot? ....
Hello Rick,
no, it is not something that is currently produced on a recurring basis. We do have enough material for the current production run and most likely for a second (on a purchase reserve). That also includes sufficient material for perhaps 25 sets (both sides) of the inside firewall pads - they are quite large as you know. We should have sufficient scrap from this run to satisfy any demands for the strips in the trunk floor board.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 05:10:57 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

66andBlue

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 16:39:22 »
... Will a limited skill amateur be able to remove the old pad and install the new without special tools?  or does this mean a visit to the auto shop? ...
Hi Richard,
be very careful when Garry tells you "Tom and I believed that anyone that could fit the existing after market pads ... " , you are following the advise of two completely fearless individuals who had no hesitation driving a small moving space on 4 wheels across the continent!  ;) ;D

Seriously, what you need to consider is that you have to dismantle quite a bit of plumbing and electrical connections along the firewall, that is, outflow hose from the heater, hood release cable, grounding wires, tach and speedo drive cables and oil pressure tubing, etc.
As a reminder, take a look here:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14653.0;attach=11658;image
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14653.0;attach=12158;image

If doing all of that is no problem for you then you will have no problem with the installation of the new pad.
Since your Euro 280SL needs the VIN cut out it requires that you first remove the demarcated rectangle in the felt backing before removing the release paper. Then you carefully place the felt backing over the front layer (the one with the waffle pattern) - or the front layer on to the sticky side of the felt layer whatever you prefer - and align them before gluing both parts together by pressure. Now you cut out the rectangle in the front layer to create the opening for the VIN plate.  Then the completed pads (large one the passenger side and small one on the driver side) can be glued on to the cleaned metal. I would not recommend using a spray adhesive unless you carefully mask off all the areas around the firewall. A good brush on glue is easier to work with and less messy, imo.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Benz Dr.

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 16:55:01 »
I install the small part first because there are enough places to help you to keep it straight. The large section is a bit more difficult and it's easy to get it wrong. I use a piece of waxed paper between the pad and the firewall and then it can be pulled aside once you have the pad positioned correctly.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
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menesesjesse

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 18:27:29 »
Not to rain on anybody's parade but I just received and email from a california parts outfit that has faithfully copied the old insulating pad pattern. The pad has a adhesive on it already and runs for about 250.00.

Well i guess I came late on this subject. I see there were other strings mentioning the new pad. I hope everyone can get the pad they like best for a price that they feel is fair.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 18:39:57 by menesesjesse »
Jesse

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 19:38:04 »
Count me in for one LHD set.
(250, early, European)

Thanks,
Petri
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Tom Colitt

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 20:00:11 »
Also, as if several different reproductions of the same item isn't enough, I have just received very reliable information that Apple is coming out with an iPad 6 specifically for the Pagoda. It will feature a full vehicle width touchscreen through which owners will be able to identify and repair any problems in their Pagoda just by opening the hood and while driving this plus additional information will be mirrored onto the windshield. Unfortunately the price for the 1kb version (don't forget, this was a lot in 1969) will be around $499, but it will include Wifi and an APP. that installs your hard top as soon as your garage door closes.

On a different note, we have also received the same "email" that "menesesjesse" has received and have determined that the faithfulness of the other mats that have made a mad rush to market, ever since they heard about the Pagoda groups efforts, leaves much to be desired, at a cost that is significantly higher than what our German Meister, Alfred, has in mind. Those of you who know my almost fanatical attention to detail, will appreciate that I was incredulous that he was able to attain not only the same pattern, but also the exact same base material and properties that the original pads had. I know this because I was heavily involved in this process and spent many hours discussing these details with the G4. I made a bit of a concession with the felt backing that is now being offered and I am still confidant that we will also be able to provide the foam backing, if there is a demand for complete authenticity in both appearance and function.

mdsalemi

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 20:15:45 »
Great work guys.  I particularly like the 7-page illustrated story about the whole process.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
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Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 22:07:25 »
Also, as if several different reproductions of the same item isn't enough, I have just received very reliable information that Apple is coming out with an iPad 6 specifically for the Pagoda. It will feature a full vehicle width touchscreen through which owners will be able to identify and repair any problems in their Pagoda just by opening the hood and while driving this plus additional information will be mirrored onto the windshield. Unfortunately the price for the 1kb version (don't forget, this was a lot in 1969) will be around $499, but it will include Wifi and an APP. that installs your hard top as soon as your garage door closes.

On a different note, we have also received the same "email" that "menesesjesse" has received and have determined that the faithfulness of the other mats that have made a mad rush to market, ever since they heard about the Pagoda groups efforts, leaves much to be desired, at a cost that is significantly higher than what our German Meister, Alfred, has in mind. Those of you who know my almost fanatical attention to detail, will appreciate that I was incredulous that he was able to attain not only the same pattern, but also the exact same base material and properties that the original pads had. I know this because I was heavily involved in this process and spent many hours discussing these details with the G4. I made a bit of a concession with the felt backing that is now being offered and I am still confidant that we will also be able to provide the foam backing, if there is a demand for complete authenticity in both appearance and function.

Tom,
I also received the same email as I imagine a number of people did. Early reports are that his stuff is junk and now I see you saying it's spot on. Not sure what to think but price is always a strong factor for some people and if the newer '' new '' stuff is less that should help sales.

Anyway, it all takes effort so I'm hoping it works out well for everyone.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

Drewtee

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2011, 22:34:56 »
Bloody great work, well done the four of you.  

The enthusiam from Garry to get this organised from the offset has been quite remarkable, but a big thanks to everyone that has put in the effort and got the final result - Amazing how quickly it has come to fruition.

The knowledge and enthusiasm from certain individuals has produced a great result - what a fab forum this is.

Now, please put me down for enough material for at list one firewall ( RHD) Mine goes to the paint shop next week so the timing is spot on  ;)
Andy Tee

Rhd 5 speed 728h with parchment interior
White Californian 280sl LHD
W111 3.5 Cab and Coupe both RHD

waqas

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2011, 01:01:04 »
This effort has been outstanding from the start. From the attention to detail, to the speed of execution, it's been great to witness the progress. We even got to vote during the decision-making process! Quite an achievement. Thank you Alfred, Garry, Tom and Dave!

Please sign me up for (at least) one set for a LHD 230SL, plus misc pieces for trunk floor and under dash. Now I can't wait to get my car to the paint shop!
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

66andBlue

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Re: The Pagoda SL113 Group Firewall Pad Recreation Project
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2011, 01:29:52 »
..... a california parts outfit that has faithfully copied the old insulating pad pattern. .....
Hi Jesse,
take a look at this comparison. Which surface pattern is more "faithful" to the original?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)