Replica "original' firewall pads

[t.h.]

Count me in for 1 firewall pad 2 front footwell pads and the piece that goes around the wiper motor cavity on the inside
of the car in rhd Would prefere die cut firewall pad but then again beggers cant be chosers and just getting the correct pattern made would be fantastic
69 pogoda 280
71 2002ti

[BABAK]

Garry- I know your trying to work on this firewall pad and that's very exciting. I might have some leads on how you can regain your confidence in regards to this project. I've found a replica match for the material in the US. Each pad can be cut precisely using a cutting die. In addition, a specific tool needs to be made to the stamp out the pattern onto the material. The cost to make the tool is very expensive. But with the tool the material can be stamped to look just as good as the original fire pad. I'd love to discuss this further................

[Garry]

PM sent.

Thanks
Garry

[69280sl]

It was earlier advised that the group has some excess funds, mulling over free membership extensions etc. I suggest that these funds be used for the die mentioned by Babak below.

I further suggest that if this comes to fruition, basic members (non-paying) be charged somewhat more. Not to punish them, but to provide extra value for the people that pay the bills and make the forum possible.

As an aside, I wonder if die cutting from the reverse side would make these appropriate for RHD cars?
Gus

[Garry]

Hi Gus,

All these things you mentioned have been discussed with the Board and a plan for the way forward worked out and we are hopeful something will come of it all.  From this point on we are really now looking for numbers of interested parties.

Thanks to all who have helped or offered to do so. 

[66andBlue]

... As an aside, I wonder if die cutting from the reverse side would make these appropriate for RHD cars?

Unfortunately the pads for LHD and RHD cars are not mirror images but quite different.
The photos are from Miller's Inc.

[Iconic]

Garry,
I am interested in a LHD set.
Thanks for working on this.
Mark

[Jordan]

Garry, I mentioned earlier that I was also interested in a set for LHD.  At PUB this year it also became apparent that the firewall material was used in the trunk (as well as under the dash) so it would be useful if material could be purchased say by the metre or yard.  Many thanks for undertaking this endeavor and it was great getting the chance to meet at PUB.
Cheers, Marcus

[66andBlue]

To help us moving this project along it would be very useful knowing whether the interested parties prefer an original pad, that is, one having the correct diamond surface pattern and the amber-colored foam backing with a thickness of 4mm, or the more durable jute backing that was used by MB in the substituted material that was sold from about 1990 to 2007. The total thickness of that pad was about 7 mm. See attached photos.

The current aftermarket pad sold by several eBay vendors (including our member Babak aka "Benzrestorer") also uses a jute backing but is only 4 mm thick as was the original diamond-patterned but foam backed material.
Our intention is to provide the pads pre-cut for LHD cars (and perhaps also for RHD cars depending on how many orders being placed). We are not yet certain that the foam backing will be an amber color as the original or a gray/black color.

Please answer the following questions in the poll above:
I prefer to buy a pre-cut firewall pad with a close match to the original diamond pattern with:
(1) an approximately 4mm thick foam backing
(2) an approximately 4mm thick jute backing
(3) either one of the suggested backings.

Pro foam: A foam-backed material is like the original but in a few years will curl up at the edges that will be very difficult to repair. Vigilant maintenance of course can prevent the curling from occurring.
Pro jute: Jute-backed material will be less prone to curling at the edge and the edge will remain sharper and better contoured for a much longer time.  Of course, it is not original compared to the 1964-1971 padding.
Voting will close in 2 weeks.

[George Des]

Not sure of the specifics that led to this topic being moved to the members only section other than the reference to commercial interests but it appears to me we are blocking out a significant number of forum users who are potential consumers of thus product. In addition, the commercial guys that are out there may see some reason to be motivated into assisting by developing additional sources for the material. My two cents not knowing if there is some other reason for the move.

George

[Garry]

George,

All will be shown in due course as discussions with suppliers and potential commercial outlets continues but be assured that both Members and Non Members will be given access to any end product that may come from the work being done.

Garry

[pagoden]

I haven't thought myself much interested in this issue  since I have what appears to be original padding on the firewall.  As my ignorance slowly clears (like the fog?) I learn that I'll need some for the interior and trunk.  And, for that matter, the two firewall panels seem to've aged differently - for reasons unclear.  The result is that, ideally, I may want the ability to buy 'open stock' material for elementary cutting into simple shapes as well as nice, precisely shaped, complex die-cut pieces, at least for the firewall - - and perhaps only one or the other of those two pieces!  [And this without introducing RHD into it.]
Yes, I do realize that this sort of complexity is not good news in the planning phase of any project.  "I'm jes' sayin", is the phrase, I believe.  And likely I'm not the first to arrive at this realisation, so here's hoping the need can be met at this level.  And if not, well then, that has to be the call of those what's doin' the doin'. 
I quite agree that whatever the result of the efforts here turns out to be, it will be a vast improvement over the present reality and much appreciated by all.  We do thank you, very much.

PS - Wouldn't it be nice to have this product in our Pagoda Shop ... where it would likely wind up if this were the 190SL Group?  And who knows; we are a Group in transition, are we not?

All best,
Denny

[Benz Dr.]

Let me state that I have zero interest in fire wall pads nor do I have any venture capitol I'd like to invest. If there ARE members here who are investing in such I'd be careful if I were you. The demand is relatively small given the number of cars made and there already is a fire wall pad available. It may not be correct but that's not always the main consideration for every buyer.

 

[SilverSpear]

Not sure of the specifics that led to this topic being moved to the members only section other than the reference to commercial interests but it appears to me we are blocking out a significant number of forum users who are potential consumers of thus product. In addition, the commercial guys that are out there may see some reason to be motivated into assisting by developing additional sources for the material. My two cents not knowing if there is some other reason for the move.

George

I second what George is saying. This thread should be for the eyes of everybody especially that the ones doing the effort are in desperate need for more buyers due to quantity requirements. How will more people know about this if it is hidden? 

[66andBlue]

...How will more people know about this if it is hidden? 

Read reply #1 again. Is that not clear? 

[Garry]

I am sorry for starting all this.

It was really simple and that was as the article become more advanced it became really clear that source suppliers and or others were going to realise the value of the article and capitalise on it, gain the "who wants it list'  and potentially shut us down through no supply. The Who Wants it List from this Forum was only a fraction of the market so we were trying to get the best price for our Members in the process.

It had nothing to do with the Board at that point who I discussed it with and realised other things/sources were happening that I was not aware of. We were not 'hiding' anything from members nor had any other hidden agenda. I and the Board were trying to get the cheapest and correct item to members. Others would trying to capitalise on it and gain sole rights to manufacture and distribution.

I would suggest that this discussion is destroying any chance that the Pagoda SL Group has of managing the supply and this discussion clearly shows, as I was warned, that it needs to be handed over to a commercial source and the Forum and its members may need to walk away from the end process.  That unfortunately will mean that the end article will almost certainly increase greatly in price.

All I asked was for the "members" to give us a chance to further develop it.  I said that all members and non members would be given access to supply and I repeat that again and also say there is no need for further assistance either physically or financially. There is a need for the Forum to allow us to get this to a finished state without trying to destroy.

[Benz Dr.]

Dan. THEN LEAVE!

You remember our previous conversations on this.

Peter

 I'm not sure why everyone has their balls in an uproar over this. Someone asked a question and I'm not sure if he/they were happy with the answer or not, but I guess we'll all find out in due time. Believe me, I'm not worried about what's going on with fire wall pads. If someone has an idea to reproduce them, have at it. I only cautioned everyone because I've been in parts sales long enough to know that even really good ideas don't always work out. I do hope that this one ( whatever it is ) works out for everyone.

  It's good to ask questions. And yes Peter, I remember our last conversation very well.

[Benz Dr.]

I am sorry for starting all this.

It was really simple and that was as the article become more advanced it became really clear that source suppliers and or others were going to realise the value of the article and capitalise on it, gain the "who wants it list'  and potentially shut us down through no supply. The Who Wants it List from this Forum was only a fraction of the market so we were trying to get the best price for our Members in the process.

It had nothing to do with the Board at that point who I discussed it with and realised other things/sources were happening that I was not aware of. We were not 'hiding' anything from members nor had any other hidden agenda. I and the Board were trying to get the cheapest and correct item to members. Others would trying to capitalise on it and gain sole rights to manufacture and distribution.

I would suggest that this discussion is destroying any chance that the Pagoda SL Group has of managing the supply and this discussion clearly shows, as I was warned, that it needs to be handed over to a commercial source and the Forum and its members may need to walk away from the end process.  That unfortunately will mean that the end article will almost certainly increase greatly in price.

All I asked was for the "members" to give us a chance to further develop it.  I said that all members and non members would be given access to supply and I repeat that again and also say there is no need for further assistance either physically or financially. There is a need for the Forum to allow us to get this to a finished state without trying to destroy.

Garry,
you post explains everything and I see where you're going with this. No one is, or was, trying to destroy anything. I might suggest that items like this be kept on the members only forum until you have all the ducks in a row. However, keeping an open secret is kind of hard to do.

As I said earlier, there is a pad available but it's the wrong one. If there's a potential market for these things I'm surprised that someone hasn't looked at that yet. Maybe they are anyway and the whole exercise will become an unfortunate coincidence if that's the case. It's all part of the parts biz.   

[hauser]

Hate to say it but one of you guys should have purchased my NOS pad when it was for sale.

[SilverSpear]

Read reply #1 again. Is that not clear? 

Yes it is clear, I read it. But if one guy will have to pay for 1000 meters of manufactured and cut pads, and then make it public and wait till members buy them... that wouldn't be logical right? On the other hand, if you keep it public now, you will have more and more members signing up and knowing about that option and keep their hopes up without investing in generic ones..

[daffern1]

I'll take a LHD set, too!

Thanks for putting forth the effort to get this going.

[Richard Madison]

Just to sound a negative note here, while I may be interested in purchasing one of the pads to replace the poor imitation now in my car, I do not believe it is proper to spend general Group funds for new pads. The expenditure will benefit only a few Group members while the funds belong to all the Full Members.

Those who want a pad, should cover all the expenses. The Group can be a good "meeting place" for those who need a pad but the Group should not, in my opinion, finance the pads.

Richard M, NYC

[Garry]

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your input.  Several people have suggested that the Group manage the firewall pad sourcing and distribution if successful and at the same time ensuring the recovery of all costs involved and making a small profit for all the full members.

However, several like your self, for differing reasons have indicated that the Group should not have anything to do with the process or sale.

At this point the Pagoda Group as the Group is not involved and if and when the few of us from the Forum that have been working on the problem finally come up with a solution that is acceptable to those interested in purchasing a pad or maybe just the material to do so, then a final decision will be made on how to fund and recover the costs associated with the development and supply.  At this point we do not intend to involve the Pagoda Group for a number of reasons I don't wish to go into here on the Forum. I don't see that position changing in the near future.

Hope that meets and addresses some of your concerns.

Garry

[Garry]

Hi All

Does anyone with RHD vehicle have either the old pad that they have removed that could be used to get a paper pattern or a new reproduction pad that I could get a pattern from.

I am trying to understand the sizes of the different pads and how if I had material, how to mix and match the patterns to utilise the amount of material used.

Could they please PM me.

Thanks
Garry

[hands_aus]

Hi Garry,

I think I sent you a PM some time ago about wanting a RHD set.
If I didn't, I would like to buy a RHD firewall pad set.

Thanks