Learning to judge 113's

[n/a]

Does anyone have information on how one can become more knowlegable on judging Mercedes :?:
I have been a member of the Mercedes Club of North America for 12 years.  I live in Alberta,  Canada.  We have an active chapter of the club here in Alberta,  but the number of vehicles that we see with each concource are limited.  I have been a 113 owner for 10 years,  and is interested in getting "trained" on how to judge these cars properly.  How does one go about this in USA/Canada?
If anyone can point me in the right direction,  I would appreciate it!

Cheers
Ferdinand Ollewagen

66 250SL
94 E500

[Bob G]

Ferdinand:
If you own a W113 you should be fimular with the quarks of fit and finish  of these cars. The star has a good article on reconizing changes in the 230SL, 250SL & 280SL and some good pictures of what is orginal and what is after market like the fire wall pad that was orginal in a diamond pattern after market are smooth with a different service texture. Taillights early 230SL till 1969 had all red taillights later in 1969 was the switch to DOT lenses with amber and the three peice set up.
Their is really no specific informational sheets for concours judging on indivial models of Mercedes-Benz vehicals at this time. If you have a question members on this site are more than happy to help you form an orginal set of information for you to copy down and catagorize for the year and model of the W113 production.
I recommend you look through the book on our site that are recommended and read them and attend some Concours that may have your model SL to see what the experts look for when judging this model.
If you have any specific questions please post them so members can reply. Also there is a good article in Pagoda times on what to look for when buying a W113 SL. I suggest you get a copy and read it.
Thank You
Bob Geco

[ja17]

Hello Ferdinand,

Pete Lesler of this group and MBCA runs the concourse judging school for the Mercedes Benz Club of America.
He can give you a copy of the National Judging Sheet.
Better yet you can attend one of his one day schools and become certified to be a judge. The best teacher is your own research. Read as much as you can, view as many W113 cars as possible.

Attend as many shows as you can and learn from the most knowledgable. this site is a good place to starr, there is an enormous amount of experience and information right here!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Tom Colitt]

I agree, books are a good resource, but a maybe a small word of caution:. You can't always believe everything that books tell you. I have found that errors are not uncommon in books about Pagodas. After all they are generally written by authors who copy and repeat information that they may not have gotten from the best sources. The best teacher is experience, common sense and looking at "original" cars at car shows. If they have already been restored they may look beautiful, but not necessarily completely correct and you will find all sorts of people telling you "that's how they did it from the factory"
In my experience as a judge, a lot of emphasis is placed on items that are universal to all cars, such as paint flaws, condition of interior, chrome, etc, as well as general cleanliness. Unfortunately real originality is not weighted as heavily as I'd like to see.
I wonder what Pete Lesler's view is, on that topic?

Regards

Tom Colitt

[Ben]

Just my 2c but I believe that the hbooks can ggo a long way towards educating you on these cars. The Meredith book, whilst we all know is widely innacurate, it does let you in on the amount of changes that were made during production. Most of these changes are largely unseen or unrecogniseable but there are a few small details you can pick up on !

I believe the book by Gunther Engelen is the best of the lot, I dont have it and its only in German text, but this may not be a problem for you !

I have found the best way to educate is to watch the eBay cars and review what the experts on this site say about each of them. You can see exactly what they are refering to and I personally have learned a lot this way !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[JimVillers]

The comments about "Judging Sheets" is very important.  Each organization has different criteria for judging.  The 190SL Group has a very detailed judging sheet with points to be assigned or lost for each item.  MBCA has their own approach.  The AACA has an excellent judging criteria for judging multiple makes of cars.

The issue is knowing the criteria for judging and then judging the criteria.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by ollies

I have been a 113 owner for 10 years,  and is interested in getting "trained" on how to judge these cars properly.

Ferdinand,
First, I applaud your choice of cars.  I wanted a W124 E500, but had to settle for the E420!

Second, do you want to learn specifics of judging the W113 chassis or MB in general?  The MBCA does have a detailed judging form, but I don't believe it is model-specific.  I would assume your Canadian MB Club would have one as well.  I don't think a W113-specific form exists, unless the German Pagoda Club has one.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Jonny B]

The MBCA form that I have used in judging is not model specific, but there are a couple of references to several options and timing. The "bundt" style alloys being one, from Mid 69 on I believe.

The judging criteria from MBCA is available on line (as part of the 2005 rule book) and contains some very specific criteria for judging, as well as a copy of the judging sheet.

www.mbca.org then navigate to the club references tab, and under that is the link to the 2005 rule book.


Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto