Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Research & Development => Topic started by: Swissomatic on March 07, 2023, 17:30:21
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Interesting choice of engine and transmission.
https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/am23_101/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl
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16" wheels with hubcaps.... (think that's too much wheel for the car (optically) but I am likely in the minority)
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16" wheels with hubcaps.... (think that's too much wheel for the car (optically) but I am likely in the minority)
No, you're not. I'm not that impressed with this car. Lots of stuff half-assed done and I'm not talking about the mods either.
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I inspected this and found an old auction listing when Sothebys had it for sale.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az19/arizona/lots/r0152-1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl-pagoda-custom/736717
Got 196k back then, before the crazy prices. Go to page 282 of the catalog (downloadable on bottom left) to see the listing back then. In my opinion, the wheel should have been softened with body color powder coating, polished steel outer rim, and cutting the venting off of the 1-piece cap so the center cap is in proportion. But it looked fine in person. I wish they'd photograph these cars from ordinary standing height, as we are not caterpillars crawling on the ground. Had an ugly radio even then and the shifter could certainly have been much more elegant. They already spent the big bucks on the wheels and other such things, why not machine a handsome aluminum shifter gate? And delete the ashtray while you're at it. And the awful side indicators.
But hey, like I said in my own thread on this car, I'm glad someone liked this car enough to bid highly on it then and now, and I'm hopeful this might ignite some people with creativity to do better builds, seeing as the market values even so-so work. Engine bay looks nice and tidy, though. Of course, what doesn't, when there's a giant plastic cover. I don't dock this one for removing the wooden tray, as its kinda just in the way. But again, a lot of money was spent here, so why not fabricate a 107-style center console to take advantage of that real estate there and have something really elegant. Or one like the contemporary 2000C (automatic) BMW (E9 predecessor), which I thought always had an elegant center stack.
(https://cdn.classicdigest.com/live/carimg/173601_173700/173683_49e92dbe0353e87c.jpg)
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Tough crowd. I think it's awesome!
Man, w/the hood closed, who's gonna know it's not stock besides the driver mashing the pedal and flying at 80mph at probably 2800RPM as opposed to 5000 RPM?
Love the stance. It's how MB should have delivered Pagodas as opposed to the sky high 4x4 front end lift they have now.
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Love the wheel.
16s are perfect!
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/bagauction/6/1253/46302/1920x1440/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl.webp)
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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Personally i love my tiny 14 inch wheels and the way the car tips up at the front, it's all part of its charm
I love all of its quirkiness and wouldn't change it in any way
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I don’t think these cars had a high front when new, and the rise is an artifact from the new Bilsteins which are not the same as those in the 60s. Jim Villers wrote about it.
Much of what people like in any car is from conditioning. Guarantee if these cars came with 16” wheels like the BMW 507, no one would claim they’d prefer smaller wheels………
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Love the wheel.
16s are perfect!
I agree - personally I think they look great
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/bagauction/6/1253/46302/1920x1440/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl.webp)
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I don’t think these cars had a high front when new, and the rise is an artifact from the new Bilsteins which are not the same as those in the 60s. Jim Villers wrote about it.
Much of what people like in any car is from conditioning. Guarantee if these cars came with 16” wheels like the BMW 507, no one would claim they’d prefer smaller wheels………
Maybe an optical illusion, but they certainly gave the impression that they rode high at the front
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mercedes+w113+video+journeyman+1963&&view=detail&mid=93412FA91E6BF4463EA393412FA91E6BF4463EA3&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmercedes%2520w113%2520video%2520journeyman%25201963%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVR%26%3D%2525eManage%2520Your%2520Search%2520History%2525E%26sp%3D-1%26lq%3D0%26pq%3Dmercedes%2520w113%2520video%2520journeyman%25201963%26sc%3D10-35%26sk%3D%26cvid%3D21BF65D285A24417830648202676FA11%26ghsh%3D0%26ghacc%3D0%26ghpl%3D
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Maybe an optical illusion, but they certainly gave the impression that they rode high at the front
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mercedes+w113+video+journeyman+1963&&view=detail&mid=93412FA91E6BF4463EA393412FA91E6BF4463EA3&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmercedes%2520w113%2520video%2520journeyman%25201963%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVR%26%3D%2525eManage%2520Your%2520Search%2520History%2525E%26sp%3D-1%26lq%3D0%26pq%3Dmercedes%2520w113%2520video%2520journeyman%25201963%26sc%3D10-35%26sk%3D%26cvid%3D21BF65D285A24417830648202676FA11%26ghsh%3D0%26ghacc%3D0%26ghpl%3D
I love that video, especially the Talbot mirror used on the car you see at 0:20. I think it's an optical illusion because of the way the rear wheel well comes down. Look at 7:45 and the sheer line on the top. Looks pretty straight to me. https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=6837.0 A little about ride height.
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Again, perfect stance.
I ordered front lowered linear springs from the same place John Olson gets his. I'm hoping I get a stance similar to this:
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/bagauction/6/1253/46299/1920x1440/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl.webp)
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Again, perfect stance.
I ordered front lowered linear springs from the same place John Olson gets his. I'm hoping I get a stance similar to this:
I called a friend at Broad Arrow to get me some more information about these wheels. My understanding is it was built by a man named Don Davis, out of Colorado. It's possible it is this man: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/dd13 as the SL was sold at auction also at Sothebys originally. Appears he might be a car dealer. More information forthcoming when I get it.
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I called a friend at Broad Arrow to get me some more information about these wheels. My understanding is it was built by a man named Don Davis, out of Colorado. It's possible it is this man: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/dd13 as the SL was sold at auction also at Sothebys originally. Appears he might be a car dealer. More information forthcoming when I get it.
I'm wondering if they are chromed versions of these (or similar) that can maybe hold a hub cap:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/16-steel-wheels-set-of-four/1k0698027/ (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/16-steel-wheels-set-of-four/1k0698027/)
https://www.tunershop.shop/alcar-steel-wheel-9890-7-0x16-et37-5x112-16-inch.html (https://www.tunershop.shop/alcar-steel-wheel-9890-7-0x16-et37-5x112-16-inch.html)
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/175001101267?hash=item28bee0e3d3:g:VYkAAOSwkVJhfY3O&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4MZf1p%2B1Vsz8X1A7hXgxMSo6PK91SuRJKTxlX7f2o8KP844V%2F4JEJsij%2Bb9xdXsTRMWVQgBsj9P9H%2F%2FXUAB7xDUvvF%2BeHt0itlsVsQm2p1y2x3DzZtTNyIdERwiKpFYxl0VEOPBsqWkr0phkYz%2Bl53c1gEEXiF5OvKb9kjLPsG8gbJTeJaBiwhfVfPPhMqnTphkoL1yX0mw5Co9rD382Vj5xTMcbAHk3PZ37r8jiFBg8XmJQhIKKaJSsnh2hxFIGLWGL3dXdPaUosa%2BAVt7IrRwGGc40AWuOWoWZd5JQvblD%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4KeucfYYQ[/url)
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I'm wondering if they are chromed versions of these (or similar) that can maybe hold a hub cap:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/16-steel-wheels-set-of-four/1k0698027/ (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/16-steel-wheels-set-of-four/1k0698027/)
https://www.tunershop.shop/alcar-steel-wheel-9890-7-0x16-et37-5x112-16-inch.html (https://www.tunershop.shop/alcar-steel-wheel-9890-7-0x16-et37-5x112-16-inch.html)
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/175001101267?hash=item28bee0e3d3:g:VYkAAOSwkVJhfY3O&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4MZf1p%2B1Vsz8X1A7hXgxMSo6PK91SuRJKTxlX7f2o8KP844V%2F4JEJsij%2Bb9xdXsTRMWVQgBsj9P9H%2F%2FXUAB7xDUvvF%2BeHt0itlsVsQm2p1y2x3DzZtTNyIdERwiKpFYxl0VEOPBsqWkr0phkYz%2Bl53c1gEEXiF5OvKb9kjLPsG8gbJTeJaBiwhfVfPPhMqnTphkoL1yX0mw5Co9rD382Vj5xTMcbAHk3PZ37r8jiFBg8XmJQhIKKaJSsnh2hxFIGLWGL3dXdPaUosa%2BAVt7IrRwGGc40AWuOWoWZd5JQvblD%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4KeucfYYQ[/url)
I think you're probably right. Also, I'm about 6 weeks out on my billet wheels.
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Much of what people like in any car is from conditioning. Guarantee if these cars came with 16” wheels like the BMW 507, no one would claim they’d prefer smaller wheels………
I think we've become accustomed to modern cars, and the need for larger and larger wheels. When you see older cars the wheels look tiny, but then the cars look tiny compared to modern cars
I just checked my wife's reasonably modern Mini, 2009, wheels are 17 inch, original mini wheels are 12 inch
Some others
300SL 15 inch, 190SL 13 inch (is this correct?) modern SL's up to 20 inch
E type 15 inch, F Type 20 inch or possibly larger
I had an F Pace a while ago and specced 22 inch wheels, looked like dustbin lids and drove far worse than standard wheels
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I think we've become accustomed to modern cars, and the need for larger and larger wheels. When you see older cars the wheels look tiny, but then the cars look tiny compared to modern cars
I just checked my wife's reasonably modern Mini, 2009, wheels are 17 inch, original mini wheels are 12 inch
Some others
300SL 15 inch, 190SL 13 inch (is this correct?) modern SL's up to 20 inch
E type 15 inch, F Type 20 inch or possibly larger
I had an F Pace a while ago and specced 22 inch wheels, looked like dustbin lids and drove far worse than standard wheels
Yes, that is correct. 190SL wheels are 13"
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In my opinion, anything larger than 17” on modern road cars is really just for the looks. I think the 20” style 666 on my m4 are pushing it, they’d look a tad better with 19”. But some people just have that number in their head, they want 20s. On modern range rovers and such, I think they’re even bigger. On Lincoln Navigators, The 22s are huge and ugly and lack dimension. Though funnily, big wheels are actually an old timey thing. The wheels on 20s-30s cars are huge! https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1930-37-wooden-wheels Some were even 20”. Then they’d have the white walls, which make them seem even bigger.
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I actually like smaller wheels, bigger tyres (higher sidewalls). Like on most 50's GT cars.
Check out these:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Lancia_Aurelia_GT_1955.jpg)
Lancia Aurelia 1955
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/1962_Ferrari_250_GT_Berlinetta_-_yellow_-_fvl_%284608953535%29.jpg/800px-1962_Ferrari_250_GT_Berlinetta_-_yellow_-_fvl_%284608953535%29.jpg)
Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta
On my Pagoda with the original Vredestein 185x14 tyres I like the look of the higher sidewall.
Peter
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I have a rusted out W124 300TE 24V in my storage unit. I'm waiting for the day when a customer says, "I'm interested in fitting an alternative engine...."
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I have a rusted out W124 300TE 24V in my storage unit. I'm waiting for the day when a customer says, "I'm interested in fitting an alternative engine...."
https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-with-m104-swap/
This might interest you. I called up Hatch a month or so ago about it. They said they just did some work on it and sold it for the customer. The manager there said it was his favorite of all the W113s he had driven, and really good quality work aside from the engine mounts (they made some new ones). Said an outfit in Florida did it. And they went straight for the 3.2. If I was skilled, I'd do the same build. It's perfect. And look at the immaculate engine it comes with, too -- I'd put that in a glass case.