Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: StevenF on October 29, 2022, 16:39:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXDIf2sRIc
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Ausgezeichnet!!
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Thanks for sharing, amazing video!
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Thank you Steven, great video indeed!
Dieter
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Outstanding! This video gives the owner a greater appreciation and reason for having only top quality work performed on his/her car. Thanks for letting us know about it.
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Great Video Steven. Really enjoyed watching it. thanks for sharing.
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It is a good video although I refute that they are the only people in the world capable of such!
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It is a good video although I refute that they are the only people in the world capable of such!
agree.
Did maybe more detailed work on certain parts of my car during my restoration.
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I’m scared to know the price for all this thing . Rebuilding an injection pump for a 300sl gullwing cost 30k? Is it true ?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXDIf2sRIc
"A wrecked Mercedes that is more than 50 years old is rusting away in a shed - for some it is pure scrap, but for some classic car fans it is a true treasure with a guaranteed top price. The headquarters of the world's largest vehicle tuner, Brabus, is located in Bottrop in the heart of the Ruhr region in Germany. Here, old Mercedes stars gain a new shine. The restoration professionals' masterpiece is the 280 SL, also known as the Pagoda. From the body to the engine block, from the smallest seam to the last washer, everything about the Pagoda is refurbished. Getting these automotive icons back on the road takes several thousand hours of work. Every Pagoda that leaves the halls is a classic car with new-car character - 60 years old with zero mileage. This six-star luxury restoration is unique in the world."
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All the Pagodas they are selling are listed at 329,000Euro
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All the Pagodas they are selling are listed at 329,000Euro
+1
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Guys but do you think is realistic 30k to rebuild the injection pump of a 300sl gullwing? I agree that the injection pump is the Achilles heel of all pagoda and gullwing but this is too much .
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Guys but do you think is realistic 30k to rebuild the injection pump of a 300sl gullwing? I agree that the injection pump is the Achilles heel of all pagoda and gullwing but this is too much .
No. I think it is price gouging and taking advantage of a niche. Back in the days, Bosch used to have service outlets in Germany called "Bosch Dienst" where you could have these things tested and rebuild for under 1000.-DM ($500)
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Guys but do you think is realistic 30k to rebuild the injection pump of a 300sl gullwing? I agree that the injection pump is the Achilles heel of all pagoda and gullwing but this is too much .
Did you try these guys? https://www.koller.de/en/
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A second hand W113 Brabus (1year old 3K KM) was recently advertised for 210K euro , a 30 % discount to the new price of 330K euro.
This demonstrate that the Brabus "new car" concept is spot on. "New cars" depreciate the moment you drive them out of the dealership. The Brabus hype is based, not on the exclusivity of their quality (many top class restorers can replicate it) but on their brand. Brabus buyers are not classic car people.
The current intrinsic market value of a top quality W113 is in the order of 200K euro. Unfortunately all the hype around Brabus W113 new price of 330K euro has got the European restoration community over excited to the point where their pricing has become illogical. Hope they calm down soon.
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Well...I'm sure each restoration takes 1500 hours, at €200/hour, plus parts, €350k is not unheard of.
Notice they take a USA version and convert it to a Euro-spec.
And why not? As God intended! (or at least MB)
I think if one's going to spend €350k+ on a Pagoda, it should AT LEAST get a BOLT ON 6-speed conversion that they sell for $12k USD.
Would make it WAY MORE FUN than w/the factory slushbox and it would be EASY to revert it back (no cutting/welding req'd).
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Notice they take a USA version and convert it to a Euro-spec.
And why not? As God intended! (or at least MB)
The biggest single market for the W113 was the U.S. A lot of things MB did to it was because of the U.S. market. Change from 250SL to 280SL, as an example.
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Big German market now, lots of Pagodas are being shipped back to Europe.
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Hello, Eidelweis,
Go to any European site advertising W113s (www.mobile.de or www.classicdriver.com) you will see that a high end W113 sell at a max of 220K euro. To command this price it would need to be European spec (US imports are discounted), number matching, conforming to its original color and interior specification and with a quality restoration by a recognized European company. The outlier at 330K is Brabus, even though they do not hold a monopoly for that level of quality.
Don't know where you get your 200 euros an hour from. Germany cost per hour of labor are at 50-60 euro per hour (fully loaded cost circa 130euro an hour). Poland and Hungary, which do a lot of work on a subcontract basis, are at 15 euro per hour (fully loaded 40-50 euro an hour). Can you tell what the cost per hour is in the US?
Come on, lets calm the hype down. It prices out the true enthusiasts of our community. However I do agree a six speed makes the W113 a nicer car to drive.
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The cost of labor for a shop in the U.S.varies depending on what it is. A regular automotive dealer service shop charges anywhere between U.S. $90 and $125. per hour. Independent service places are at the lower end of that range, maybe a tad lower even. Restoration shops and specialists are significantly higher. You be hard-pressed to find a restoration shop in Germany that works on cars of this caliper for under 200 Euro/hour.
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Thanks for the feedback on US rates. Can you be more specific on hourly rates for reputable Pagoda restorers. Did you get your car restored by one of them?
I have a recent quote (this month) from a premium German Mercedes restorer to restore my car for 185K euro fixed cost, parts included. With restoration hours falling between 1000 to 1500 hours if you start with a decent car, 200 Euro an hours rate would result in a price of 200K-250K euro excluding parts.............
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I'm sure that's what Brabus charges.
I'm surprised Brabus didn't dyno the engine on a stand before installing the engine.
Lots of leaks, etc. can best be detected outside the car.
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Brabus can charge more because of that elusive 6th star. While Colin Ferns, Motoring Investments, Safet and others may do comparable and in many ways much more accurate restoration work they do not have that magical 6th star.
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Precisely, and that all comes down to clever marketing.
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Brabus have created a new segment in the market based on the strength of the "Brabus" brand. Their customers are purchasing the Brabus brand and exclusive Classic Data certificate that complements it. Nothing to do with real costs or hours of work.
They dedicate a whole section of their website to the subject of the "Brabus" Brand. Brand trumps content every time.
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Re. US labour rates, based on my enquiries much earlier this year I believe that the top end restoration shops/ pagoda specialists charge about $150-170/hr for their labour (in SoCal). However this was caveated at the time with a warning that rates might increase due to the effects of inflation and a tighter labour market.
I have dealt with several well-experienced mechanics who operate in the $80-100/hr range.
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I’ve watched the entire video and there is one part that didn’t convinced me . When they opened the cylinder head they saw some water damage inside the cylinders . The main mechanic blamed the water damage to some mis adjustment of the newly overhauled injection pump . For me this doesn’t make any sense . Water damage is made from overheating . Probably there was some translation problem I believe.