Pagoda SL Group

W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: merrill on October 04, 2022, 12:27:33

Title: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 04, 2022, 12:27:33
well looks like the fuel pump on my 230 sl is leaking at the wire connections,  all hose clamps are snug.

after reading several posts and searching the tech section the leak is not uncommon.

now to come up with a plan on how to repair or replace with a rebuilt.

Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 04, 2022, 15:08:55
talked to  vintage euro and ordered the rebuild kit from them  for $65 bucks

https://vintageeuroparts.com/short-style-fuel-pump-repair-rebuild-kit-280-se-sl-bosch-mercedes-w108-w111-w113.html

they also have a video showing the rebuild
https://youtu.be/PkC8WQd3_H4

another project to add to the list!
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: ejboyd5 on October 04, 2022, 16:37:58
You might want to try Loctite 290 green wicking sealant.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 04, 2022, 21:00:13
I used the same kit to rebuild mine. They also have a more complete kit with a new impeller and armature if yours are too far gone.

make sure your mating surfaces on your bottom plate are flat so it seals well. you can wet sand it using fine wet and dry paper to get it totally flat.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 05, 2022, 12:28:20
hi
thanks for the replies and advice,

pulled the pump yesterday, now waiting on the kit.

for sure its leaking from either the terminals or the top cover o ring.    the pump is dry above the top cover o ring area.

Question,  is there a consensus on lubricating the o rings,   after using the search function and reading about 8 posts on rebuilding the pumps it seem that a little motor oil is the recommendation?

thanks in advance



Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: rwmastel on October 05, 2022, 20:14:34
talked to vintage euro and ordered the rebuild kit from them for $65 bucks
You are not a patient man.  Less than 3 hours between "I need a plan" and "I bought a rebuild kit". :)
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 05, 2022, 21:20:33
Rodd
lol, that's the benefit of this group,  by the it didn't take long for me to research the issue and read posts on how to repair and make a decision. :)
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Charles 230SL on October 06, 2022, 00:08:03
Question,  is there a consensus on lubricating the o rings,   after using the search function and reading about 8 posts on rebuilding the pumps it seem that a little motor oil is the recommendation?...
Yes, definitely put a light coat of motor oil on the seals. Kent Bergsma (MercedesSource.com) has a great video about replacing seals in a short pump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA. Fast forward to time 9:30 in the video.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 06, 2022, 11:24:31
thanks Charles 230sl!
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 06, 2022, 12:36:01
be careful with the screws when you open it up let the soak in some penetrant oil
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: rwmastel on October 06, 2022, 14:17:05
... a great video about replacing seals in a short pump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA. Fast forward to time 9:30 in the video.
Charles,
When you share a link, you can do that fast forward yourself by adding a time suffix to the link, "&t=9m30s" in this case.  So, it would be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA&t=9m30s
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Charles 230SL on October 06, 2022, 15:39:44
thanks Rodd, I didn't know that. I'll add a time suffix next time.
Good info,, thanks again.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 08, 2022, 20:31:51
received the kit from vintage euro today, so decided to get started on dis assembly of the pump

the impeller and cover are clean!

brushes are worn (picture)

need to pull the armature from the top and clean the inside of the top.

outer o rings appear shrunken and dry. wont mess with those until re assembly
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 11, 2022, 10:30:11
looks like its in pretty good shape. should work well. how is the commutator?
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 11, 2022, 12:58:04
Pinder,
actually looks good,   sorry that the picture is kind of dark
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 11, 2022, 17:30:04
looks very good. The new brushes should work well
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: rwmastel on October 11, 2022, 23:31:56
brushes are worn (picture)
I don't know much about electric motors. Where are the brushes in the picture, and how does one know if they're worn?

I'll probably be doing this rebuild in the spring.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 12, 2022, 00:15:44
picture of the brushes up in the 13th post in this thread?  they are in the base.

the old ones got some wear,  good think new ones come in the kit!

these videos and the one above are helpful
How to rebuild a Bosch Short Fuel Pump MERCEDES W108 W111 W113 0442201002 A 0010915201
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PkC8WQd3_H4&feature=youtu.be
Rebuilding An Old Mercedes “Short” Fuel Pump
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcO3I3GQBg
1963 to 1972 Mercedes FID Short Electric Fuel Pump Repair Options
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yI7T3WVpfk8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 12, 2022, 16:34:46
The brushes are designed to wear down like break pads. I think when they have almost worn down to about 3mm it would be best to change. If the pump is opened up and new ones come in the kit its wise to change them out.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: rwmastel on October 13, 2022, 03:47:28
12th post, the filename of the pic literally says "brushes", but I see nothing with bristles. Just some springs, clips, and blocks with a curved end.  I'll watch the videos and try to learn something.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: rwmastel on October 13, 2022, 03:54:39
OK, so "brushes" aren't actually brushes, they're blocks.  Does that come from some terrible naming by someone 150 years ago?  Were they actually metal bristles 150 years ago and the name didn't change with newer technology?
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: BobH on October 13, 2022, 09:22:27
That's correct, the original brushes were copper bristles, which over time developed into carbon or carbon compounds.  When they wear down, or the springs weaken, or they get stuck in their runners, this can cause arcing and burn the commutator, so best to replace while you have the pump apart, and make sure they are free in the runners.  Check the commutator for any burns or flat spots before reassembly
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 13, 2022, 13:11:36
hello
some pictures for clarity
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 15, 2022, 21:25:55
well, pump re seal is complete and good timing as the brushes were very worn (picture)

some tips
1, the brushes are removed by pushing them toward the center, if you try to push outward they cant clear the holder (picture)
2. be sure to lube everything when re installing,   o rings,  where the o rings sit and the contact surfaces where other parts mate.
the fit with new o rings is very tight.
3, when re installing the brush springs, i found that it was easier to spread the 2 legs apart and using a needle nose pliers to grab the entire spring between the legs would hold the legs open.  then carefully inserting the spring where it sits on the holder, the long part is far enough over to engage the brush and then sort of push the whole thing down. then you an use various tools to grab the short leg and pull it over to where it locks in the holder.
4. removing the terminals was not that bad as they are 2 parts, so its easy once unsoldered and unscrewed to remove one side at a time.  you are able to spin and rotate as needed to get the wires out so you can r/r the o rings.

lastly i would watch the vintage euro video, do a step, watch the next step, do that step and so on.  its actually straight forward.

hope this helps !
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 17, 2022, 22:10:07
pump installed, no leaks!

took the car for a drive today,  nice to be back on the road

I may buy an extra kit to have it in the future.
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Pinder on October 18, 2022, 01:59:22
Nice job!
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: Mike Hughes on October 18, 2022, 03:01:02
"I love it when a plan comes together!"
Title: Re: fuel pump leaking
Post by: merrill on October 23, 2022, 15:23:01
took the car for a nice freeway drive yesterday,   it seemed to have faster acceleration.

not sure if this is related to rebuilding the pump but sure was nice!