Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Essey on September 11, 2022, 13:13:19
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Anyone any idea what happened???!!! My wife took the car this morning on a "Girl's rallye". Light driving but hills... Consequently i was not there to witness exactly what happened, but the result is i just had the car lifted and brought home.
Apparently the car had been running beautifully for about 2.5 hours including a section which was uphill... After coffee on the way back down, she noticed the revs were very high and the car would not change out of 2nd, maybe 3rd, anyway, the revs were high. To be safe she pulled over, put the car in Park and switched off the engine. At this point she knew something was wrong as the car started to roll downhill while in park! She tried to start the engine but it would not turn over. She checked the gear shift to make sure she was in Park, and noticed that it was very "floppy"!
Anyone any ideas?
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the switch sockets are probably broken.
Peter
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Shifter bushings need to be replaced. There's one at the transmission one at the shifter. A few dollars apiece.
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Yes sounds like the shift bushings fairly easy to do I did mine. Might want to replace the lightbulb in there if there is one so you don't have to take it apart again.
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Brilliant, thanks so much all for your advice Peter, Lorsar and Jim.... Sadly i am rubbish at mechanical stuff, but at least now i will be able to give the mechanic i use some helpful advice. I am based in the South Of France and the mechanics down here are "special"... Most are terrible and beyond belief, however the latest one i have found seems to be OK ....
By the way... what caused this to happen? ... bad luck? Old car? How it was driven? We tend to not push the car hard and apart from steep hill climbs, keep it in 4th all the time... Is that the correct way to drive a 230? Also the car is really not driven very much at all... Highh days and holidays and a run round the block every month or two.
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Would a faulty or broken bushing or two be enough to stop it going into any gear... Was just looking in the Technical Manual area, and git the impression that it would not completely stop gear selection... That said there was not so much info on the automatic gearbox, more on the manual.
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The parts are made of plastic and will become brittle over time. They should be checked every few years.
it has nothing to do with driving style.
Peter
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Thanks Peter... I just got some more information out of my wife... Apparently they were driving for about 2.5 hours up a mountain. Car was running beautifully. When they descended after a coffee break and herding jely fish, on the road down she noticed that whilst she was in 4th gear the revs were really high 3500... so she slowed down, and moved into 3rd gear... Apparently at that point she noticed that the gear shift was loose and "floppy".. She then stopped the car and put it in Park... it did not go into Park and started rolling forward when she took her foot off the brake. She then tried the ignition again but the engine did nothing, just a click but no starter motor turning, so obviously it was still in gear. ia m guessing it is stuck in third or maybe even second.
Before going off on her Rallye i gave the car to the mechanic and asked him to check everything over and make sure it was safe and good for said Rallys... He said all was in good shape.
Any further thoughts?
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My husband backed my car into the garage and the shifter went loose when he put it in park. Then it wouldn't start because it was in gear. Very similar to yours.
If you can see in my picture, one side looks like a closed end wrench and the bushing fits into it. The other side is like a ball socket that fits into the bushing. When moving the shifter the ball socket rotates inside the bushing and it wears and gets brittle over the years. Unless you take the shifter out, you can't really see if the top bushing is worn.
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Thanks Lori... That gives me hope.... I was fearing that it could be something serious in the gearbox. I will take a look tomorow.. Apparently one can see the bushes from taking off the cover on the inside of the car.
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In the picture it is part # 48. Replace all of them. Remove the carpet on the transmission tunnel and remove the 4 bolts holding the shift lever. It should pull right it since the bushing that usually disintegrates is the one attached to the shifter on the side of the transmission. You can reach under from the drivers side and move the lever manually where the link attaches. when you have the assembly out you will see the empty link where the bushing was.
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Dear all... I cannot express how grateful I am to you all for your comments, especially the detailed advice. I have passed my mechanic your comments and pictures and he will take a look tomorrow. Getting the parts here in France will be another interesting experience. It is like a parallel universe, it all looks the same but very little works. So fingers crossed.
I attach a parts list i found for the clutch transmission and linkage, in case anyone else has similar problems and this is helpful to them.
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In an emergency you can even use a tie-wrap to connect the linkage (for a bit...)
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I would order them from mb. not cheap but good and the fastest available.
Peter
I ordered them just to be safe. you should have them in the glove box.
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Just got under the car to take a look myself before taking to the garage... The mechanic was clueless and said it was impossible to diagnose without taking the car to his garage........ It is exactly as everyone said... part 48 is broken... Slipped the connector back on temporarily... Gear shift no longer loose!!!.. Put the car in park and started it.. Perfect!.. Then reversed a yard, then forward a yard, perfect. Pics below in the hope this helps others. Videos in zips.
Are there any other parts I should change while getting this repair done? I have more faith in this forum than my mechanic who was supposed to prepare and check the car two days earlier for my wife's Rally... Just checked the oil level in the gearbox and it is not showing on the dipstick! Not overly impressed with him now. Any tips on European parts suppliers and part numbers would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi Peter... do you have a link to the MB parts shop?
Thanks
Sean
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yes, but you can go to the mercedes dealer with the numbers and order
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the procedure badali detailed is how i replace the bushings.
i put the car in park, disconnect the rod from the trans, pull up carpet, remove 4 bolts, pull the assy out, replace bushings,
put assy in, crawl under car and re connect to trans.
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yes, but you can go to the mercedes dealer with the numbers and order
Hi Peter
LOL ;D :-\ :'( You have not experienced official garages in the South of France! They are beyond what you could believe is possible. I have learned many lessons over the years, and now I prefer to order parts directly from UK or Germany or Italy from original manufacturer.... So please, if you could send me the link to that MB site you posted earlier, I will buy from them.... LOL ....The stories I could tell you!!!!! Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, even the humble Ford...6 months to replace a fuel pump!!!
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the procedure badali detailed is how i replace the bushings.
i put the car in park, disconnect the rod from the trans, pull up carpet, remove 4 bolts, pull the assy out, replace bushings,
put assy in, crawl under car and re connect to trans.
Hi Matt... From what i can see it is just one bushing under the car that is broken... Are there more that i should replace that are somewhere else?
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That rod has a bushing on each end - under the car by the trans and at the top connected to the shifter. It's easier to take the whole rod out to press in the new bushings so replace both.
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Hi Lori... So just the two bushes on the rod... will do.
Many thanks, your advice really helped a lot!
As this seems a reasonably common occurrence, it would be good to have this in the Technical manual area. In fact surprised it was not in there.
I love this forum!!!!
Sean
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Well, it is in the technical manual, kinda- sorta...
I did find it but it is too well hidden. To find the reference - go to the transmission section from the main page of the tech manual, then click on "Automatic Transmission" - now use the Ctrl+F function in the web browser and type in "bushing" it should give you eight hits, click through them until you find the comments about replacing the bushings.
As I said at the start, very kinda-sorta! Unfortunately there is a lot of great information tucked away like that.
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Luckily... you or any other Full Member can fix that oversight really easily: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/News
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Ok Peter, will do once I manage to get the parts. MB Germany would not deliver to France, but i have a work around. i will take more pics and videos when we do the install. In the meantime please feel free to add the pics and videos I posted above. Not remotely interesting for seasoned mechanics but for noobs like me and the mechanic i have/had down here, great!
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Sometimes the Universe gives you a little nudge. Maybe this is a little motivation to start the journey of learning how to work on your own car.
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I replaced my bushing a while back and one thing I would add is to remember how the tensioning spring came out. It took me more time to get the spring back in the correct way than for the hole job. It was a nice improvement though once done.
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+1 on the tensioning spring... Caused me massive frustration towards the end of the job.
As I have been reminded often by members of the forum, ALWAYS take photos before you start work and as you go along... Of everything! You can never have too many, and it is always much easier to take things apart than it is to put them back together!
Good luck
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Thanks for the advice and encouragement Todd. I have already bought a fair few tools, plus trolley jack and ramps, but was a little too scared to try my own repairs... This is all really new to me and just finding the part numbers i needed for this little repair was pretty confusing... I was seeing 3 or 4 different numbers for the same part!
I got some amazing advice on this forum and thanks to a couple of them, nailed the problem and the fix... So in short, with the help of this forum i will be trying to do a bit of the maintenance and chhecking myself.
Thanks again
Sean
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Hi Davek....Unless I am very much mistaken, all i need to do is heat up the new bushing, slide it onto the arm and then slot it back on to the part that comes through under the car. All the work is under the car and i do not need to touch any springs??!!!
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Thanks Rahul... As a total newbie this kind of advice is pretty useful :D
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When you obtain your new bushings, invest in a pair of special bushing pliers. They will make installation of the new bushings quite literally a snap. having done one already, I keep a couple of bushings and the bushing pliers in my traveling toolkit. They'll eventually come in handy, either for my car or someone else's!
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Great suggestion! I did not know such things existed.
Do you have a picture of what these things look like... or even a link to where to buy one?
Many thanks
Sean
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I think you can use any type of grips, molegrips or the like to squeeze the bushes in if you soften them first, but this is the purpose made bushing tool, and a video how to use them
https://mercedessource.com/store/automatic-transmission-shift-rod-bushing-replacement-tool-kit-new-bushings-included
Probably available from other sources closer to home
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Thanks Bob... Now i know what to look for! :D
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Hi. The tool is definitely the way to go but... if you attempt it without the tool, it really helps to soften the bushing up in a cup of very hot water. And it only goes in one way (should make sense when you look at the bushing).
James
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I have been searching online for teh tool in Europe and in the UK, but have yet to find one..Are they only popular in the States?
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You can use standard pipe grips or mole grips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt8jFLFYEcs
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Many of us read the first post and "knew" the likely (and actual) cause and it's clearly anissue for auto cars over many years for MB
So why hasn't anyone found a better material for the bushing?!
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I don't know James my bushing only lasted 40 years before it gave out.