Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: johnk on January 09, 2022, 15:06:42
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According to my MB dealer I was lucky enough to get one of the last MB windshields. However as I am installing it the bottom corners are about 1/2 inch to far out. Anyone else have this problem with a new MB windshield and were you able to pull them back in without cracking the windshield?
Also my MB rubber seal has two spots that appear warped a bit as shown in the pics below. Anyone else have these in their seal from MB? Don’t want to go through the hassle of sending back to Pelican parts if I don’t have to.
Thanks
John
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Hi John, I have an original windshield removed and on my bench. With a tape measure, I get 55 3/8 inches outer edge to outer edge. I also have one I got from Mercedes Classic Center (about 5 months ago) that I haven't installed yet. But it's inconvenient to measure this evening. I'll get that measurement tomorrow evening.
Cheers, JohnnyC
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Thanks Johnny. It’s not a length issue though. It fit around the windshield with no problem. It’s just that it has this warping on it before it was put in the windshield. I am going to return it to Pelican Parts.
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Like Johnny I had understood you were asking whether the new windscreen might be too wide for the aperture.
I installed (the original) front and rear windscreens using new seals on a '73 Datsun 240Z last week and had a much more difficult time at it than when I re-installed the screens on my Fulvia, using its original seals. At first I thought the seals for the Datsun were not the correct fit. But once I got the screens in, the seals 'complied' and the fit turned out fine. Also due to the fact that, once the screen gets put all the way in, the fit to the body is different due to the curving of the shapes going on. Not saying your new MB seal is not defective (it's a bit hard to tell from the pictures), just reporting my own experience. I did use a lubricant for the Datsun seals that helped. When I was struggling with the Datsun last week I did consider calling in the services of a professional installer but luckily I ended up managing (with help from my wife!).
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Thanks Cees.
I should have figured out how to draw circles on the pics where the seal is wrinkled. Not the greatest pics. Shvegel answered my questions on the corners. He uses a ratchet strap (gently) to pull the corners in for his new windshield. I will be doing the same once I get a new seal.
Take care
John
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I just need to figure out if I can remove the aluminum strip without bending it so I can return the seal. I can cut I out to save the costly aluminum but if not sure yet if I can return the seal that way.
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John,
Our windshields are the old classy style and are usually not glued into the windshield frame of the car.
Thus, you can usually just "squeeze" or press out the whole windshield from inside - all together: screen with seal and the (aluminum) chrome inlay. 8)
In the old days - when we were young and did this ourselves... ??? - one person just sat inside the car on the (e.g.) passenger seat, put his shoes carefully against the windscreen and pressed the screen carefully out with the feet towards the front of the car. And a helper just "accepted" the pressed-out windscreen - not to damage anything.
Basically it worked the same way when I pressed out the original windscreen of my 1st Pagoda back in 1997.
Reassembly is like this:
1st the chrome goes into the new seal, then the windscreen. A bit of a strong tape to fix things here and there surely helps.
Then you "apply" the whole unit back with a strong band, wire or cable in the inner lip fo the seal ...
- its just the classic way of removing and putting in a windshield. You need two people for sure... ;)
Today we are a bit more carefully and use professional help...; Pagoda stuff isn't cheap anymore, and you don't want to break an original SL windscreen - for sure. 8)
Good luck!
Best,
Achim
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Thanks Achim
Yes I am very familiar with the process and did it once before with a porche 930. Had this one 1/4 way on already until I saw that the MB seal was too defective to seal properly.
Right now just waiting for the new seal from Pelican Parts and whether or not I can remove the aluminum molding without damaging the current one that I want to return.
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On my Lancia and Datsun windshields from the same era, I could put in and take out the chrome/stainless steel moldings after first putting the seal around the windshield. In fact, I tried doing it the other way around first (first the molding into the seal, then the assembly around the windshield) and it was impossible. So, John, I would expect it would work the same way with the Pagoda - with the windshield+seal+insert out of the car, I would hope there's a way you can bend the rubber seal down/out so that the steel molding can be worked out. That's how it worked on the Datsun and Lancia anyway.
And, Achim, at 61 I am still able to single-handedly take out and put back in front and rear screens on Lancias and Datsuns!
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Thanks Cees. I will be trying it later this week.
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That's not going to work and you will damage the trim, the rubber or crack the windshield. The windshield, the rubber and the chrome are meant to go in, in one shot. The real challenge here is working with a rubber that has not been on a car ever - the materials used now for the rubber seal are not the same as done 50 years ago, no matter what they tell you (they = MB).
I had both original glass/rubber/chrome trim setup AND new glass/rubber/chrome and let me tell you the installer, with all my help, sweat a lot until he made it fit in. My main concern was cracking the damn glass. It made its way in, not perfectly, but good enough. The original setup was fitting like a glove, albeit the glass was weathered, the seal was used and the chrome was not perfect. Hence the decision to go with the new.
One word of caution: do it when it is really warm. Do not attempt when colder than +20C.
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This YouTube video explains the installation of a windshield in a 67 911. Very similar to the W113.
https://youtu.be/I3FY9pM3SGE
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This YouTube video explains the installation of a windshield in a 67 911. Very similar to the W113.
https://youtu.be/I3FY9pM3SGE
Frank, thanks for the link. I watched that video--Part I--and then followed up with the Part II.
Some interesting take-aways, from my perspective...
1. The guy--Mike--seems to be a reasonably skilled person, though I couldn't find any website; just an Amazon storefront and a YouTube channel.
2. Nonetheless it is an exceedingly complex project.
3. It's a two person job.
4. There was, in a camera pan, a note on the Porsche instruction set that said only use new[rubber] seals. That means don't try and reuse an old seal.
5. Even with his skill level, he ran into a lot of issues, with OEM parts, that needed some expertise to diagnose, and he had to create some special tools to solve.
6. I'll never try this myself! ;)
My windscreen was replaced twice. First in the initial restoration, as the OEM was by then, 30 years old, of which the first 10 was daily driver use. Windshield was severely pitted. That replacement was a PPG with tint band and when replaced this past summer, it was 20 years old, nearly 18,000 miles of use and also annoyingly pitted. Most of those miles were highway miles (lots of high speed driving to PUBs, etc.), and there's no better way to get a windshield pitted than lots of highway use.
First replacement was by the initial restorer; second was by my Michigan shop, Motorwerks. If they had such issues as Mike notes in his video, I didn't know about them. I think the windshield was replaced relatively easily. My new windshield was MB OEM. The cost for the OEM windshield was $500; the new rubber seal was $150. Labor 4 hours. Twenty years ago, the cost of the PPG windshield was $350.
...since the hardtop was restored this past summer as well, all the glass on that came out and seals/trim replaced on that as well. Motorwerks has learned the tricks to do those side windows on the hard top which can give people fits.
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Watched the videos. Perhaps Porsche windows are more difficult than average, but I took both windshields out of both the '72 Lancia and the '73 Datsun to paint the cars, and put them back myself, without a second person helping. Both have stainless trim inserts like the Porsche from the video. For the Fulvia I used the original ('72) seals and that went quite easy. For the Datsun I used new seals and that fit was a lot more difficult, but still I was able to put both windows in in about an hour each. So it is possible as a one-person job. Of note that I used a lot smaller diameter cord than the guys in the Porsche videos.
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I have not yet reinstalled the windshield on the 280, but to build up the knowledge and courage I watched this w116 windshield install.
Any comments if this video makes sense (generally speaking) for w113?
https://youtu.be/v4hAT0aSIyM
***post modified after installing : the w116 is not exactly the same as W113 but very close. There is no need to pull rubber on top of inserted t-molding metal on the w113 as you would on the w116, Not possible on w113. W113 is easier. Also, turkey baster for rope install helps to insert rope. Otherwise, this w116 video is pretty close. He explains all the groves in the rubber very well — just ignore the extra flap the goes over the t-molding as it does not exist on the w113 rubber.
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If I can help you out Kampala just let me know!
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Cees
I might just take you up on that offer! Will try to be ready in a couple weeks. Believe I need to get dash pads and dash wood in place before windshield.
I have also read that it’s better to install windshield without the wood — since my wood is the original,and I should not have to trim to fit (but you never know) I may opt for windshield install before wood.
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Not to hijack John’s thread —— ;) But Cees came over today and installed my windshield on the 280 — I helped a little.
His experience with windshields really made the difference! He was comfortable doing things that I would have been questioning. I learned a lot while Cees only learned another use of a turkey baster … (it helps to put the rope in the channel). We really took our time and it went incredibly smooth — took about 2 hours which included 45 minutes of chit-chat and talking about how should we do this.
Did this with wood and dash pads not installed and a Mercedes seal. Perfect.
Many thanks to Cees!
( John, let us know how yours works out. Maybe Cees can come to Ohio from sunny California during this winter and help ;D )
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It was my pleasure Aslam! The turkey baster trick is golden.
Using a new original MB seal I think really helped get to what I think is a great result. Very high quality seal.
Sorry I had to run at the end, needed to make a Board meeting ...
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Not to hijack John’s thread —— ;) But Cees came over today and installed my windshield on the 280 — I helped a little.
His experience with windshields really made the difference! He was comfortable doing things that I would have been questioning. I learned a lot while Cees only learned another use of a turkey baster … (it helps to put the rope in the channel). We really took our time and it went incredibly smooth — took about 2 hours which included 45 minutes of chit-chat and talking about how should we do this.
Did this with wood and dash pads not installed and a Mercedes seal. Perfect.
Many thanks to Cees!
( John, let us know how yours works out. Maybe Cees can come to Ohio from sunny California during this winter and help ;D )
I would love Cees to come to Ohio to help, and enjoy the beautiful 12 inches of snow we have while he is at it!
FYI pelican parts have me a return slip for my defective seal. Finishing up my hard top first before I get back to the windshield.
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@ John and Aslam. Did you get a new windshield? And if so, from where, if I may ask? I need to buy one shortly. A buddy of mine got one from the classic center but had to return it.
Thanks.
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Bought mine at the MB dealer this summer. They said it was one of the last ones available. Why did your buddy have to return his?
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Re-installed original windshield.
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Bought mine at the MB dealer this summer. They said it was one of the last ones available. Why did your buddy have to return his?
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Thanks. Just talked to him. He actually didn’t return it yet. He is waiting for a replacement to come in first. The edging or marking on the window is to far in and not in the right spot from what I understand. He may weigh in himself. Did you get a tinted or clear one?
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Dirk
Tinted was all that was available. What do you mean the edging or marking was too far in? Was the MB logo out of place?
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John,
I don’t mind a tinted one but I prefer not to have the upper, darker green stripe in it.
I am relatively tall and I believe that would somewhat interfere with the vision.
I also would prefer to pick up the windshield instead of have it shipped. I saw the some vendors charge several hundred $ to ship it.
Yes, it was the MB marking that was off.
Thank you.
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One more question to you guys. Given the choice and looking at Aslams pictures, it is better to install the windshield prior to installing the wood and other trim pieces?
Thanks again.
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One more question to you guys. Given the choice and looking at Aslams pictures, it is better to install the windshield prior to installing the wood and other trim pieces?
Thanks again.
While it is possible to install the windshield with the upper dash (wood etc) in place it is much easier to install without. I would install windshield and then the wood and other pieces.
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Makes sense.
Thank you
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I intend to do the same when installing my windshield.
Put Windshield in before the dashboard.
Tom
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Yup and thanks.
I just got word from the classic center. Coming from Germany. Only clear at the moment.
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Dirk
I looked closely at my 250 before deciding how to do the 280 windshield. I decided to leave off the wood until after windshield installation. You can put dash pads (on late 250/280, don’t know about 230) as it does not seem to interfere but I also see no advantage to install dash pads first.
The reason some install wood first is that metal stud that is on the wood can damage the dash pads if installing wood after windshield. Some put a thin protection others have actually removed a stud from the wood and reinstalled the stud from below.
Note: I was reinstalling original wood, if installing NEW wood, things may be quite different.
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I agree with kampala, installing wood pieces can damage dashboard mainly on the left side.
Many years ago I was told that one of the studs (above the hump) you cut off 1/4 inch off the screw.
Then you use something like a credit card and place it under the screw and slide the wood piece into place.
Tom