Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Question and comments on Originality => Topic started by: hbrand on December 14, 2021, 20:48:22
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I bought a one owner 69 280SL and worked a few month resulting in a great driving car.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z8amYWFP7N12faav6)
I like it the way it looks, never painted or welded. 40 years inside storage in Texas. But wife want's the car painted.
So, what are you thinking ?
Pictures are on Google:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EK42LeuXyodquBdJ8 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/EK42LeuXyodquBdJ8)
Greetings, Harold
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Work performed on 280SL
Recently:
New both motor mounts
New both sub frame mounts
New steering link and shock
Some new coolant hoses and clamps
Coolant flush, correct stickers applied
Starter serviced, freeze cover resealed
Brake and clutch fluid changed
Engine oil, filter
Transmission and rear axle oil changed
Distributor and iginition serviced
Hand cleaning 4 wheel wells to show originality
Pressure washing front and rear suspension
Handcleaning same, some painting and detailing
Visible original inspection marks touched up
Original nuts and bolts touched up
Replacment rear calipers cleaned and painted
Mechanical injection readjusted
Cold start and warm up circuit repaired
New German leather seat upholstery installed
Left trunk floor removed surface rust and painted
Removed old trunk seal
Treated surface rust in trunk seal channel
Installed new trunk lid seal
Installed soft top side gaskets to door windows
Repaired original matching numbers radio
Work done by first owner:
Radiator recored
4 brake calipers, all hoses, new brake booster and master cylinder
New Clutch master cylinder, hose and slave cylinder
New or refurbished gas tank
Fuel pump serviced
Fuel injection pump rebuild
6 new fuel injectors
Shifter linkage rebuild
New soft top installed
New trunk rubber mat
Heat insulation on floors
New cocomats
Speedo cable replaced
Heat insulation and carpet installed
All instrument bulbs changed
Clock repaired
Heater levers and flaps replaced
Ignitor ignition installed into distributor.
Coil for that
Many parts replaced over time.
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I bought a one owner 69 280SL and worked a few month resulting in a great driving car.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z8amYWFP7N12faav6)
I like it the way it looks, never painted or welded. 40 years inside storage in Texas. But wife want's the car painted.
So, what are you thinking ?
Pictures are on Google:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EK42LeuXyodquBdJ8 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/EK42LeuXyodquBdJ8)
Greetings, Harold
Harold, hate to say it but you already have your answer. What any of us here have to say is immaterial.
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Driving around with the hood and trunk unpainted might be what's stopping her from enjoying a car ride! That would be a great pity.
Peter
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I don't see the need to have a silver bonnet and boot on a red car. Even an unpainted carbon fibre hood may look cool for the true tuner car nut but I think the average person (my wife and daughters included) thinks that look is "unappealing".
If you are very careful with your prep and application, a good quality custom matched paint in a spray bomb from an automotive paint store would probably do a good enough job to get your wife in a single colour car. Approx 1/3 of my car is painted with a spray bomb in my garage and I have never had anyone point it out. After painting I polished the paint with a fine surface refinisher (by hand) and then a nice wax and unless you are at exactly the right angle its really hard to tell.
I can tell, but I can also tell where my wife's new car was repainted at the dealer. The salesman, sales manager and some other important looking guy were all adamant there was no repainting until the owner brought out the paint guy who instantly picked the same location of a repair as I did. Unless you are a "paint guy" I wouldn't worry too much about the quality if you take your time unless you are going for a concours car.
Or you can always go to a body shop to get it done properly. I just like doing things myself.
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Your pics do not show close ups of the body paint so I am not sure what other defects you have besides the unpainted hood am trunk. However solid red is not difficult to match. I would have an experienced painter paint the hood and trunk to match and do what other corrections they can along with a good buff and I think you both will be very happy.
Are you sure it’s original paint though? Not sure why the hoods would be stripped and the rest of the car in original paint.
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Sure looks like a clean car. I love originality, if indeed the majority of the body is original, I would leave it. As mentioned, getting the hood and trunk red would help a lot.
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I would take it to Pierre Hedary to look it over. Super honest guy!
http://www.pierrehedaryandco.com/
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Paint hood and trunk lid, have the rest 'corrected' (likely compounded/polished) if at all possible and everyone should be happy.
Like Bonnyboy I like doing things myself and over thanksgiving painted my own car in the garage. $500 worth of primer, sealer and paint and it looks stunning. This is only the second car I ever painted.
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Let's say all is original on the car otherwise. Did you consider just a vinyl wrap-up for the hood and trunk lid?
You may always consider a full repaint down the road. this would be a cheap and effective way to accomplish the looks without breaking the bank. Or putting a sub-par coat of paint now, which you may regret later.
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Any body shop worth its salt should be able to paint match, blend and leave as much original as possible.
However, if the fenders/doors' paint isn't that great, ya, just paint the whole thing.
I concur; looks pretty stupid as-is.
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If your thought is not to disturb originality in this car, to me, the issue is moot as this car has veered far from original already. If new paint helps to enjoy the car, do it without guilt.
Painting the hood and trunk are a thought, but good luck matching red, especially old red. Almost impossible.
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Thank you for the comments.
Will first try to paint hood and trunk. Then will see.
Or might want to sell to good home.
Greetings, Harold
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Your 250Sl must be worth more than 150K or ??
Greetings, Harold
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Your 250Sl must be worth more than 150K or ??
Greetings, Harold
I'm not sure if you're referring to mine, but I couldn't say. While early 250 SLs are the rarest of 113s, the market at this time does not put a premium on them. A 280 in equal condition would sell for more, I think. Doesn't matter though, I'm not selling. Have had it 14 years and it's a car I can continue to comfortably drive as I age.
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Regarding a previous comment: Any shade of red is one of the hardest colors to match! Ask any professional painter.
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If painting the hood means that the lady in charge will not be embarrassed to be seen riding around in it, then I would paint it. The whole point of having one of these cars is to be able to make great family memories on the road. Spectrographic paint analysis makes it possible for a good painter to match non-metallic paint pretty closely these days, certainly close enough to transform what is understood to be a good running car into an enjoyable driver for years to come. Regardless of motivation, the car will be more valuable with a red hood than it is now with a bare aluminum hood.
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Having been married nearly 45years I don`t understand why you have even asked the question - just get the boot and hood painted now - you know you are going to agree with your wife- if you want your wife to enjoy riding in your toy and support your hobby - just do it. The originality issue is a red herring - no Pagoda ever left the factory like that - or if it did it was a mistake and in my very humble opinion it just looks bizarre
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I vote for a wrap with a picture of her favorite bag on it.
Joking...
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Harold, consider joining our group as a full member and assuming all the benefits that come with it.
I have a 568 Signal Red car. Back in 2015, I had some repair to a fender that obviously required paint. My esteemed restoration shop, (Motorwerks Group, Commerce Michigan, owned by Dr. Satish Tumalla), told me (and you've seen that repeated here) that RED is one of the hardest colors to match; and yes they have all the sophisticated equipment IN HOUSE to do so, along with top notch craftsmen.
So, the fender repair begat painting the hood as well, the front clip, and careful blending down the sides of the car, with the goal of NOT being able to tell it was spot-painted. Those with a long memory may remember the paint was barely dry on my car at the last PUB in Blacklick.
Then, more recently (2020-2021), I had the door changed (from 230SL --> 280SL) and with that painting, the same kind of thing. Paint the door, and part of the fender and rear to blend it all together AND match the newly painted hard top as well.
The mark of a good job is not being able to tell there was a job in the first place.
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Will start to get some enamel paint ordered and as a guide I gave them the fresh air intake scoop to match the old red paint.
Will see how that works out.
Greetings, Harold
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If you look at the grommets that are inside the engine bay, along the inner edge of the fender, they appear to have red paint on them. If so, that indicates prior paint work…
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Not saying if the car was prayed here or there - I do not know, but these grommets were red when the car left factory. Fairly faded and uneven look of the paint would suggest they stayed original IMHO...
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The only painting inside engine compartment where paint brushed underneath the brake booster.
Will post pictures of the painted hood and trunk. Next month
Greetings, Harold
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With great respect, if you are suggesting that Mercedes-Benz in the 1960’s would install rubber grommets prior to painting a car, I would respectfully disagree. The shells were painted, then everything else was installed afterwards. Especially grommets, which would have been among the last installed. They would not have been painted- paint would make the rubber inflexible…
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1132021benz, if you are referring to the grommets shown in the two pictures I have attached here, these grommets on our cars left the factory painted in body color. Shown: Chassis 007749, January 1969 built.
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If that is indeed the case,I stand corrected and apologize!
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It a solid car. listen to your wife. Paint it. Dont leave the hood unprotected like that. at least get it in primer. Epoxy.
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Dont do enamel paint. go with a single stage AU paint and use a HVLP gun. Wear a mask!.
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Not to everyone’s taste, but saw this MG A at an event in London and just loved that interior and engine had been restored but the rather crackled paintwork remained. Very rat rodesk 😁
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Katie,
I understand the rational behind this old paint. I LOVE a pristine engine bay and a spotless interior. I find both, once thoroughly clean, to be easily maintained. And I can be a tad bit OCD about both but they are under my control. Having paint that is less than perfect is ok by me since I drive my car and don’t want to worry about getting a scratch, dent or ding that inevitably happens and over which I have little control. This is not to say I want my cars to look like this craquelure MG. A clean well maintained paint job with a little bit of “patina” is what I’m talking about. If I had one of those cars with a perfect paint job, it would simply drive me crazy trying to keep it that way.
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Paint the car. Do it properly.
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Katie,
I understand the rational behind this old paint. I LOVE a pristine engine bay and a spotless interior. I find both, once thoroughly clean, to be easily maintained. And I can be a tad bit OCD about both but they are under my control. Having paint that is less than perfect is ok by me since I drive my car and don’t want to worry about getting a scratch, dent or ding that inevitably happens and over which I have little control. This is not to say I want my cars to look like this craquelure MG. A clean well maintained paint job with a little bit of “patina” is what I’m talking about. If I had one of those cars with a perfect paint job, it would simply drive me crazy trying to keep it that way.
I've always been fascinated by new words. Craguelure - neat word, used correctly I might add. :)
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I've always been fascinated by new words. Craguelure - neat word, used correctly I might add. :)
Oh, are you talking about French or Italian? Should we modify the Wiki page to include German on cars? Totally fascinating. Probably the subject of a masters or doctoral thesis in art history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craquelure
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German: Nockenwellenbeleuchtung, Kolbenrückholfeder....
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Katie,
I understand the rational behind this old paint. I LOVE a pristine engine bay and a spotless interior. I find both, once thoroughly clean, to be easily maintained. And I can be a tad bit OCD about both but they are under my control. Having paint that is less than perfect is ok by me since I drive my car and don’t want to worry about getting a scratch, dent or ding that inevitably happens and over which I have little control. This is not to say I want my cars to look like this craquelure MG. A clean well maintained paint job with a little bit of “patina” is what I’m talking about. If I had one of those cars with a perfect paint job, it would simply drive me crazy trying to keep it that way.
Hi Len
I can see it both ways. In this instance, I think it’s so bad, it’s good, if that makes sense 😉. Oddly enough, if it wasn’t as bad as this, I would probably respray it! As they say, you only get that ‘patina’ or as you say ‘craquelure’ once 😁. As a well known UK antique dealer once said, what’s the difference between patina and rust? About £50!?!? 🤣🤣🤣
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German: Nockenwellenbeleuchtung, Kolbenrückholfeder....
Interesting German words. Like many German words, absurdly long by stringing together a bunch of other words.
But the French and Italian, and also Flemish are versions or styles of craquelure; not words, used to assist in authentication of artwork from the period, and provenance.
I had suggested with tongue in cheek, that we should define a new version of craquelure to include the cracking of paint on a German car. ;)
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German: Nockenwellenbeleuchtung, Kolbenrückholfeder....
I've always admired the precision with which one can express an idea using six or seven syllables in German that may only take two or three syllables in another tongue. ;^) Perhaps they, like the French, Italian, and Flemish words, are expressing a particular version or style of craquelure?
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I've always admired the precision with which one can express an idea using six or seven syllables in German
That may be the reason why the official language for Mathematics is German..
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So I had the hood and trunk painted but with patina so to match the old paint. Here are pictures
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looks great from the pictures, and i particularly like two tone cars
I wonder if it's difficult for car sprayers to add patina?, their job is normally to achieve as blemish free job as possible, it's like distressing a repair to an antique, to make it blend in, without looking obvious
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Well done Harold! That is really looking GREAT.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town
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I think it looks terrific too. A few nicks and dings doesn’t bother me at all. They just indicate a car that been driven and enjoyed! To do a proper paint job requires a Herculean effort and I question if it’s really worth it for the average owner who just wants to enjoy his car. When I see a spectacularly restored car, I’m always impressed. For me, however, I’d be so paranoid about it that I doubt I’d get much enjoyment. Well sorted mechanicals, a clean engine bay and interior are more important for my enjoyment than “perfect” paintwork. Bravo to let the painter add some touches of patina.
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Wunderbar! It sounds like you're pleased with the results. Is the lady in charge happy?
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Oh, are you talking about French or Italian? Should we modify the Wiki page to include German on cars? Totally fascinating. Probably the subject of a masters or doctoral thesis in art history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craquelure
The second w113 I ever looked at to buy was a dark red or burgundy '64 230SL that was craquelur. I don't know if original paint from our period does that, or if that's indicative of a repaint. Great word! I'll use it around my cousin, curator in a museum.
Is the lady in charge happy?
I think that's what we all want to know!!! And yes, the red body with black tops, interior, and hub caps is great.
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I had the dent removal guys working for one day to get all the dents from 50 years out.
Worst where the dents one does when removing the hard top and the center pin hits.
Top must have been on and off 50+ times in 50 years.
I am happy with the results. Car is looking great but one can see history.
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looks great to me!
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Here is a suggestion do a full on paint correction on the original red paint; then paint the hood and trunk top match as closely as possible ( a good shop can do this). It is still two thids original paint and your wife will be delighted
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This great 280SL 4 speed is now for sale. I have no time to enjoy.
$ 115K, thank you for consideration
Please contact Harold 3863149010
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For sale posts require the asking price be included.